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Science Forum Index » Language Translation Forum » Why this quirk in German translation?
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| Terry Pinnell |
 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:13 am |
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This is not science-related, so apologies for being OT, but I wasn't
sure of a more appropriate group.
Anticipating an imminent telephone call from Germany, I used Google
Translate on a few phrases.
There is snow all over the top of my car.
Es ist Schnee all over the top of my car.
Eh?
Yet:
There is snow over the top of my car.
Es gibt Schnee in den oberen Teil meines Autos.
What is giving Google trouble with my original phrase (apart from its
banality - my anticipated caller is not 3 yet.)
--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| Dave Devine |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:56 am |
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Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:
Quote: This is not science-related, so apologies for being OT, but I wasn't
sure of a more appropriate group.
Anticipating an imminent telephone call from Germany, I used Google
Translate on a few phrases.
There is snow all over the top of my car.
Es ist Schnee all over the top of my car.
Eh?
Yet:
There is snow over the top of my car.
Es gibt Schnee in den oberen Teil meines Autos.
What is giving Google trouble with my original phrase (apart from its
banality - my anticipated caller is not 3 yet.)
It is too colloquial - this is the great weaknesses of machine
translation.
A better German translation would be "Mein Auto ist mit Schnee bedeckt"
I'm sure a native speaker will have other suggestions.
--
There's a fine line between stupid and clever. |
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| Lanarcam |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:12 am |
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Terry Pinnell wrote:
Quote: This is not science-related, so apologies for being OT, but I wasn't
sure of a more appropriate group.
Anticipating an imminent telephone call from Germany, I used Google
Translate on a few phrases.
There is snow all over the top of my car.
Es ist Schnee all over the top of my car.
Eh?
Yet:
There is snow over the top of my car.
Es gibt Schnee in den oberen Teil meines Autos.
What is giving Google trouble with my original phrase (apart from its
banality - my anticipated caller is not 3 yet.)
Other translations by Google:
all over the top - all over the top
over the top - over the top
all over - ganz
the top - Anfang
top - Top
It seems the have a problem with top.
These are also interesting,
off the type of my head - Auf der Oberseite meines Kopfes
on the top of my head - An der Spitze von meinem Kopf
over the top of my head - over the top of my head |
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| Helmut Richter |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:13 am |
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On Sun, 6 Apr 2008, Dave Devine wrote:
Quote: Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:
This is not science-related, so apologies for being OT, but I wasn't
sure of a more appropriate group.
Anticipating an imminent telephone call from Germany, I used Google
Translate on a few phrases.
There is snow all over the top of my car.
Es ist Schnee all over the top of my car.
Eh?
Yet:
There is snow over the top of my car.
Es gibt Schnee in den oberen Teil meines Autos.
What is giving Google trouble with my original phrase (apart from its
banality - my anticipated caller is not 3 yet.)
It is too colloquial - this is the great weaknesses of machine
translation.
To translate "there is" by "es ist" is a major blunder in virtually all
possible contexts. And for the rest of the sentence Google had no idea
whatsoever.
Babelfish avoids the first problem and manages to use only German words
for the first sentence but the result is unintelligible gibberish as well:
Es gibt Schnee ganz über der Oberseite meines Autos.
Quote: A better German translation would be "Mein Auto ist mit Schnee bedeckt"
Yes, that's much better, and if you want to translate the "all" as well,
you can say "Mein Auto ist ganz mit Schnee bedeckt". For approaching the
language register of a 3 year old, you might perhaps say "Mein Auto ist
ganz voll Schnee" (lit.: my car is wholly full of snow) which is a
colloquial way to say it despite it *could* mean "filled up with snow"
instead of "covered with snow". And up to an age of much more than 3
people might say "Mein ganzes Auto ist voll Schnee" (lit.: my whole car is
full with snow) although there are no half cars around -- the kind of
logical error nit-pickers will complain about.
--
Helmut Richter |
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| MH |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:31 am |
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Quote: it seems to have a problem with top.
What if you use 'roof' instead of 'top'.
--
MH |
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| Lanarcam |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:41 am |
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MH wrote:
Quote: it seems to have a problem with top.
What if you use 'roof' instead of 'top'.
all over the roof - Alle über das Dach
over the roof - Über das Dach
all over - ganz
the roof - Dach
roof - Top
all over the top - all over the top
over the top - over the top
all over - ganz
the top - Anfang
top - Top |
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| LEE Sau Dan |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:14 pm |
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Quote: "Helmut" == Helmut Richter <hhr-m@web.de> writes:
Helmut> Babelfish avoids the first problem and manages to use only
Helmut> German words for the first sentence but the result is
Helmut> unintelligible gibberish as well:
Helmut> Es gibt Schnee ganz über der Oberseite meines Autos.
"über" + "der"?
Isn't there something wrong with their grammar rule?
--
Lee Sau Dan æŽå®ˆæ•¦ ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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| Terry Pinnell |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:30 pm |
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Helmut Richter <hhr-m@web.de> wrote:
Quote: On Sun, 6 Apr 2008, Dave Devine wrote:
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:
This is not science-related, so apologies for being OT, but I wasn't
sure of a more appropriate group.
Anticipating an imminent telephone call from Germany, I used Google
Translate on a few phrases.
There is snow all over the top of my car.
Es ist Schnee all over the top of my car.
Eh?
Yet:
There is snow over the top of my car.
Es gibt Schnee in den oberen Teil meines Autos.
What is giving Google trouble with my original phrase (apart from its
banality - my anticipated caller is not 3 yet.)
It is too colloquial - this is the great weaknesses of machine
translation.
To translate "there is" by "es ist" is a major blunder in virtually all
possible contexts. And for the rest of the sentence Google had no idea
whatsoever.
Babelfish avoids the first problem and manages to use only German words
for the first sentence but the result is unintelligible gibberish as well:
Es gibt Schnee ganz über der Oberseite meines Autos.
A better German translation would be "Mein Auto ist mit Schnee bedeckt"
Yes, that's much better, and if you want to translate the "all" as well,
you can say "Mein Auto ist ganz mit Schnee bedeckt". For approaching the
language register of a 3 year old, you might perhaps say "Mein Auto ist
ganz voll Schnee" (lit.: my car is wholly full of snow) which is a
colloquial way to say it despite it *could* mean "filled up with snow"
instead of "covered with snow". And up to an age of much more than 3
people might say "Mein ganzes Auto ist voll Schnee" (lit.: my whole car is
full with snow) although there are no half cars around -- the kind of
logical error nit-pickers will complain about.
Thanks for all those helpful replies, with a special thank you to
Helmut. The phone call didn't come this evening, so I find myself
looking forward to impressing a not-yet-three year old with my German
fluency sometime tomorrow ;-)
--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK |
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| Helmut Richter |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:59 am |
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2008, LEE Sau Dan wrote:
Quote: Helmut> Es gibt Schnee ganz über der Oberseite meines Autos.
Not written by me but quoted by me.
Quote: "über" + "der"?
Isn't there something wrong with their grammar rule?
"über der Oberseite" is a dative, and as such is possible in a static
context, meaning "(being statically) above", "(being statically) over".
The accusative "über die Oberseite" would mean "(moving into the region or
crossing the region) above". Insofar, the dative is correct here, as the
snow is statically lying [...] the top of the car.
What is wrong, however, is that the snow is not "über" (above, over) the
top of the car but "auf" (on) it. The English word "over" does not mean
"above" here but "distibuted all over". German "über" can be used to the
same end ("Viele Bücher lagen über den Boden verteilt" although the books
are *on* the floor and not *above* it) but hardly in this context.
--
Helmut Richter |
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| Peter Berner |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:48 am |
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"Terry Pinnell" wrote;
Quote: There is snow all over the top of my car:
Hello Terry,
I am a native German speaker. Guess your problem is already
solved but my considerations and tips may be helpful anyway.
L i t e r a l l y but nervertheless an accurate translation:
- Es hat überall Schnee oben auf meinem Auto.
R e l i a b l e translation:
- Mein Auto ist (...ganz...) mit Schnee bedeckt.
Retranslated:
- My car is (...quite...) covered with snow.
P o e t i c a l l y :
- Mein Auto hat eine Schneehaube.
Retranslated:
- My car has a snow cap.
Another o p t i o n , if your car has quite disappeared:
- ...ganz (oder: vollständig) eingeschneit.
Retranslated:
- ...quite (or: completely) snowed in.
Recommended Online Dictionaries:
- www.leo.org
Switch to English version, see upper left area!
Then first choose direction of translation!
See also "Forums" and "Trainer"...
- http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/
Switch to English version, see upper rigth corner!
Try the speaker symbols and see also "Spec. Subjects"...
Regards,
Peter |
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| Helmut Richter |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:50 am |
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On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Peter Berner wrote:
Quote: "Terry Pinnell" wrote;
There is snow all over the top of my car:
I am a native German speaker. Guess your problem is already
solved but my considerations and tips may be helpful anyway.
L i t e r a l l y but nervertheless an accurate translation:
- Es hat überall Schnee oben auf meinem Auto.
This is accurate -- albeit not very idiomatic -- but it is not literal. In
the source, the term was "all over" which translates to "überall" plus a
preposition or better to an expression with "ganz", e.g. "all over the
country" -> "überall im Land" or better "im ganzen Land", or here "all
over the top of my car" -> "überall auf dem Dach meines Autos" or better
"auf dem ganzen Dach meines Autos".
And: "es hat" instead of "es gibt" is certainly German, but with a
strongly Swiss ring.
--
Helmut Richter |
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| Edward Hennessey |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:45 pm |
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Helmut Richter wrote:
Quote: On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, Peter Berner wrote:
"Terry Pinnell" wrote;
There is snow all over the top of my car:
And: "es hat" instead of "es gibt" is certainly German, but with
a
strongly Swiss ring.
HR:
Perhaps you've chanced on a new theory on the origin of the phrase
"hat in the ring". And
if you have it every so often singing while riding your bike
around the loop to work, maybe
"hat in the ring cycle"....
Regards,
Edward Hennessey |
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| katrin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:21 pm |
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Quote: And: "es hat" instead of "es gibt" is certainly German, but with a strongly Swiss ring.
"es hat" is quite commonly used in the south of Germany, not only in
Switzerland.
Regards,
Katrin |
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