"SteveB" <pittmanpirate@henderson.com> wrote in message
news:pn98d5-92v1.ln1@news.infowest.com...
"Private" <please@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:ftrium$kov$1@aioe.org...
"Bob Engelhardt" <bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2radnYbbGdApPWPanZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@comcast.com...
If the valve needs to be off for the tank's new use, then do it. If
it's
because you think that it has to come off in order to safely cut the
tank,
it doesn't. I've cut up plenty of tanks by simply doing it - they do
not
need to be purged! PROVIDING that an O-A torch is NOT used to do the
cutting.
A propane tank does not have any oxygen in it, so the propane cannot
burn
in the tank. It may burn as it comes out the cutting kerf, but very
quietly. I once drilled a hole in an empty propane tank and held a
match
to the hole, to convince my cautious stepson that it was safe. The
result
was a very languid flame, like a small candle.
Using O-A to cut the tank may introduce oxygen into the tank & be
unpleasant. DO NOT DO THIS.
What I do is start the cut with a cut-off disk in an angle grinder and
finish with a metal cutting blade in a Sawzall. Very fast.
When somebody says "I do this, and this, and this to clean the tank and
I've never had a problem", I believe them. It's just that it's not
necessary.
HTH,
Bob
I am not going to comment or argue with the science? of this logic but
rather with the SAFETY attitude that it expresses.
In the bad old days there were LOTS of people injured and killed as a
result
of poor practices when welding and cutting on vessels and containers
which
have held combustible substances. I have done my share of 'hot taps'
into
'in service' gas lines and various tank repairs and modifications, and I
have lived to tell of them but, I have learned that it is not the
expected
that bites you but it is the unexpected or unrecognized thing that you
were
not aware of.
I have turned down lots of requests from customers who wanted
me to weld on gas tanks without proper precaution. They always have
stories
about someone who did it all the time by just filling them with exhaust,
but
the bottom line is always that they did not want to do the job
themselves
and they did not want to pay the cost of doing the job safely. It is
interesting that the most dangerous requests always seem to involve
working
with stuff that is not worth very much, or on projects that are also not
very valuable or worthwhile.
When attempting to weld on tanks filled with exhaust we are hoping that
the
engine was operating at 100% combustion efficiency and when we cut into
an
old scrap propane tank we are hoping that nobody used it as a small
carry
air tank.
Every winter we get more reports of deaths caused by someone using a
torch
to thaw the frozen lock on the door of a tool box that contains a leaky
torch or fuel gas bottle. This has been occurring for as long as I have
been in the trade but it continues to happen regularly.
When we work on big jobs, there are firm safety systems in place to
ensure
that all work is done in a safe manner. We have layers of safety
administration and training and firm policies on how safety issues are
to be
dealt with. We wear ALL the proper personal protective gear and unsafe
practice will earn us a quick ride to the gate. It is when we are
working
independently or for small gypo operators that we are at the greatest
risk
as there is constant pressure to do the job as fast and as cheaply as
possible and safety is considered just too expensive to pay more than
lip
service to.
The big jobs have learned from hard experience that 'If you think safety
is
too expensive, just try having an accident.'
Risk management is not about thinking (or hoping) that you are probably
safe, it is about ensuring that you have eliminated ALL the risks that
could
have harmful consequences.
Always remember Murphy's Law,
'If it can, then it will.'
and
'It is easy to cheat death, but death's advantage is that it only has to
win
once.'
'Be thankful of good luck, but don't count on it.'
"Safety" is a double edged sword.
If you're a real "safety man", you're branded as a trouble maker, and
don't get far with the company.
If you're a real "safe" employee and insist on things being done right,
you don't go far or last long, either.
If you're a "safety whore" safety man, you just advise the company how to
tapdance inside the lines so that no matter what happens, the company can
plausibly claim that they trained the employee, have proof that the
employee was present at that training, and that something outside the
company's control, such as employee negligence was the cause of the
accident.
Yet, there are really some companies who do have good safety programs and
good safety men, but they are the exception rather than the rule. The
others just want to stay within the lines, and when they do have an
accident, foist blame off themselves, and have their privately hired
worker's compensation insurer starve the employee into submission or
early death.
YMMV, but that was my experience, first after studying for the Associate
Safety Professional rating, and secondly after having a career ending
negligent accident with a "safety conscious" "employee sensitive"
company. With safety, you're either a crusader or a whore. A small
percentage of the jobs are worthwhile and beneficial to employees and
employers. With the others, they talk safety, but when something
happens, they don't even know your name.
Steve
I agree that there is a lot of lip service paid to safety and that after
an
accident (or incident) most companies (and supervisors) are in full CYA
mode. Safety
legislation and OH&S regulation varies widely depending on jurisdiction
but IMHE all require that we place the safety of persons and property
ahead of all other considerations.
As a crane operator you know that you will bear the final responsibility
for anything that happens as a result of its operation. As welders we are
at risk of personal injury and in addition bear liability for the results
of our actions. This liability is especially problematic financially if
we are operating independently.
Working safely is a personal responsibility, and ultimately we are the
best placed to take every care to ensure we do not cause injury to
ourselves or others.
Just my .02
