So are these MSNs and PhD Nurses going to wipe asses with the rest of us? I
think not. It's a fine idea on their part. Unfortunately, it doesn't leave
anyone to do the work. As I recall, the definition of nursing is to "do for
others what they themselves would do for themselves if they were able". I
don't see anything about paradigms and endlessly rewriting policies in that.
They stop being nurses, no matter what they call themselves.

You've never worked with some old school ADN nurses then have you?
Worked in quite a few institutions back in the day (and we are speaking
of the 1980's not 1880's) where RNs never touched a bedpan much less
cleaned up after a BM, unless it was absolutely required. That was what
aides and LPNs were for.

"cat" <catsandcanaries@nospammeowmeow.com> wrote in message

Of course, the courses aren't considered "college
level." But
just try and differentiate me from a BSN.

Sorry dear, unless you have the BSN, you just aren't a "nurse" *LOL*.
At least that is what the Philippine nurses armed with their native
"BSNs" say.

Of course as far as most management is concerned, a nurse is a nurse is
a nurse. IMMO the huge push for asking for the BSN is to justify (if
that) what some settings consider excessive wages by nurses.

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com

"cat" <catsandcanaries@nospammeowmeow.com> wrote in message

Of course, the courses aren't considered "college
level." But
just try and differentiate me from a BSN.

Sorry dear, unless you have the BSN, you just aren't a "nurse"
*LOL*.
At least that is what the Philippine nurses armed with their native
"BSNs" say.

Of course as far as most management is concerned, a nurse is a nurse
is
a nurse. IMMO the huge push for asking for the BSN is to justify (if
that) what some settings consider excessive wages by nurses.

In the 1980s, Duke, among other places, tried a BSN-only policy. When
they
couldn't fill their positions, they had to condescend to hire some of
*us*.
Of course, the BSNs had sunburns on the bottoms of their noses when
dealing
with us lowly diploma nurses. The neverending inferiority complex of
the
ANA....it doesn't matter how many letters you have after your
name...doctors
are still going to think you are lesser beings and management is still
going
to consider you cannon fodder. The sooner the ANA accepts that, the
sooner
we can continue the business of nursing without all the extraneous
crap.

As far as management is concerned, I think the call for degrees, like
most
requirements set up by employers, is a way to ditch unwanted
applicants
legally. If you can convince people that a stated requirement is a
BFOQ,
then you can discriminate when someone doesn't have it. No, it wasn't
because he was black or she was handicapped or they were gay, it was
because
they didn't have a BSN.

What the argument boils down to is a debate that has been raging in
nursing ever since the profession began moving away from things as
Florence Nightingale designed, that is weather the practice of nursing
is mainly a "practical" profession or something entirely different. That
is weather nurses "think" for themselves, or simply blindly follow sets
of rules, customs and or procedures.

Candide wrote:
What the argument boils down to is a debate that has been raging in
nursing ever since the profession began moving away from things as
Florence Nightingale designed, that is weather the practice of
nursing
is mainly a "practical" profession or something entirely different.
That
is weather nurses "think" for themselves, or simply blindly follow
sets
of rules, customs and or procedures.


Not to take away from your argument, but I am one ADN prepared nurse
who is
sensitive to misspelled words. I know it's a character flaw on my
part but it
seems at least partially on topic since we are talking about
education.

"Weather" refers to thunder and lightning. I think the word you want
is
"whether" which refers to a condition of being.

I worked for a MSN prepared manager who never could figure out when to
use "to"
instead of "too". She'd write about "our need too improve". It used
to drive
me nuts. I may not have a MSN or even a BSN but I knew how to spell.
And start
IVs. She could do neither. That's why she was my boss. <G

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Candide wrote:


What the argument boils down to is a debate that has been raging in
nursing ever since the profession began moving away from things as
Florence Nightingale designed, that is weather the practice of nursing
is mainly a "practical" profession or something entirely different. That
is weather nurses "think" for themselves, or simply blindly follow sets
of rules, customs and or procedures.




Not to take away from your argument, but I am one ADN prepared nurse who is
sensitive to misspelled words. I know it's a character flaw on my part but it
seems at least partially on topic since we are talking about education.

"Weather" refers to thunder and lightning. I think the word you want is
"whether" which refers to a condition of being.

I worked for a MSN prepared manager who never could figure out when to use "to"
instead of "too". She'd write about "our need too improve". It used to drive
me nuts. I may not have a MSN or even a BSN but I knew how to spell. And start
IVs. She could do neither. That's why she was my boss. <G






Your MSN probably had an MBS, to; that's where you lern to misspell )

r. That's why she was my boss. <G

Oh well now that would bother me as well. "To, Two, and Too" were
covered in first grade, there is no reason for any adult in the English
speaking world to confuse the three.

Or your when they really mean you're.

Your MSN probably had an MBS, to; that's where you lern to misspell )

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message

Not to take away from your argument, but I am one ADN prepared nurse
who is
sensitive to misspelled words. I know it's a character flaw on my
part but it
seems at least partially on topic since we are talking about
education.

Sorry about that, my spell check insists on making that correction, and
do not always prevent the substitution.

I worked for a MSN prepared manager who never could figure out when to
use "to"
instead of "too". She'd write about "our need too improve". It used
to drive
me nuts. I may not have a MSN or even a BSN but I knew how to spell.
And start
IVs. She could do neither. That's why she was my boss. <G

"
I work with an MSN-laden nurse who says things like, "I seen that." And I
had nursing instructors, BSNs and MSNs all, whose grammar made me cringe on
a regular basis. I find spelling and grammar flaws in many hospital forms.
Every time I see the flowsheet box for "O2 stat," I can't resist the need to
correct it. And so I do.

In article <c0QKj.361$PJ3.265@trndny02>,
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote:

r. That's why she was my boss. <G

Oh well now that would bother me as well. "To, Two, and Too" were
covered in first grade, there is no reason for any adult in the English
speaking world to confuse the three.

Or your when they really mean you're.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:58:11 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com
posted:

In article <c0QKj.361$PJ3.265@trndny02>,
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote:

r. That's why she was my boss. <G

Oh well now that would bother me as well. "To, Two, and Too" were
covered in first grade, there is no reason for any adult in the
English
speaking world to confuse the three.

Or your when they really mean you're.


Or loose when they mean lose. People are forever mixing those up on
the sports forums and it drives me nuts.


I'm a diploma RN (although we went to the university for the first 9
months and got 33 credits). I went back for my degree 5 years after I
got my RN just because I had nothing better to do, seriously. It did
help me get a couple of my jobs, though, because as time went by, the
requirement for certain positions included a BSN (and that was the
only difference between me and other candidates). I don't think the
English, piano, art and religion courses I took to get that BSN helped
me be a better nurse, or a better administrator, but apparantly people
in higher places felt differently.
Becky

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message

Not to take away from your argument, but I am one ADN prepared
nurse
who is
sensitive to misspelled words. I know it's a character flaw on my
part but it
seems at least partially on topic since we are talking about
education.

I am one diploma prepared nurse who is a fanatic about misspelled
words. I
don't see it as a character flaw in the face of my profession's
systemic
attempts to disparage my education. Normally it's pretty easy to
determine
if someone can't spell or if there was an innocent typo.

Sorry about that, my spell check insists on making that correction,
and
do not always prevent the substitution.

I turn off all spell checks. I do a better job.

I worked for a MSN prepared manager who never could figure out when
to
use "to"
instead of "too". She'd write about "our need too improve". It
used
to drive
me nuts. I may not have a MSN or even a BSN but I knew how to
spell.
And start
IVs. She could do neither. That's why she was my boss. <G

I work with an MSN-laden nurse who says things like, "I seen that."
And I
had nursing instructors, BSNs and MSNs all, whose grammar made me
cringe on
a regular basis. I find spelling and grammar flaws in many hospital
forms.
Every time I see the flowsheet box for "O2 stat," I can't resist the
need to
correct it. And so I do.

Currently I'm precepting a new grad BSN, who has told me she wasn't
taught
anything about documentation in her program. It's not that she can't
write
(she has degrees in other fields), but she has no idea how to write a
nursing note that will accurately describe her patient and keep her
out of
court. And I resent that the schools have left it to the lowly
diploma
nurse to do the job they failed to do.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:58:11 -0400, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com
posted:



In article <c0QKj.361$PJ3.265@trndny02>,
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote:



r. That's why she was my boss. <G

Oh well now that would bother me as well. "To, Two, and Too" were
covered in first grade, there is no reason for any adult in the English
speaking world to confuse the three.



Or your when they really mean you're.




Or loose when they mean lose. People are forever mixing those up on
the sports forums and it drives me nuts.


I'm a diploma RN (although we went to the university for the first 9
months and got 33 credits). I went back for my degree 5 years after I
got my RN just because I had nothing better to do, seriously. It did
help me get a couple of my jobs, though, because as time went by, the
requirement for certain positions included a BSN (and that was the
only difference between me and other candidates). I don't think the
English, piano, art and religion courses I took to get that BSN helped
me be a better nurse, or a better administrator, but apparantly people
in higher places felt differently.
Becky


Would it be fair to ask whether students aiming for nursing management

Would it be fair to ask whether students aiming for nursing management
take business, management
and econ? The degree should be fashioned for the career objective. I
wish I could have taken
piano in place of organic chem )
Maybe not. I was turned down for an administrative nursing job