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Science Forum Index » Medicine - Dentistry Forum » new book on gum disease, orthodontics and dentistry
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| Steven Fawks |
 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:38 pm |
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oralhealth@comcast.net wrote:
Quote: If you build a house without using a level, will it last as long?
If the hinges on a door that is constantly used, like the one in the
kitchen that hides the trash, and it is not balanced, how long will it
last?
If I am a carpenter, I will have more work to do over the long run if
things are not balanced. Things will get broken quicker.
While some of what you say is true, you are overlooking what
often is the main cause of the condition you are treating.
You are looking at your rebuild to be bullet proof when that
is not really possible.
Steve |
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| Steven Fawks |
| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:42 pm |
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Guest
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oralhealth@comcast.net wrote:
Quote: Instead of a car, let's look at a house,
If you build a house without using a level, over time it won't hold
up as well.
If hinges on a door are not level, and the door is used often, like
the door in the kitchen that hides the trash, the door will break down
and wear quicker.
And you're working on a moveable biologic organism, that never
changes and is fully measurable and predictable.
OK.
;-)
Steve |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:54 pm |
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On Apr 2, 10:42 pm, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
Quote: oralhea...@comcast.net wrote:
Instead of a car, let's look at a house,
If you build a house without using a level, over time it won't hold
up as well.
If hinges on a door are not level, and the door is used often, like
the door in the kitchen that hides the trash, the door will break down
and wear quicker.
And you're working on a moveable biologic organism, that never
changes and is fully measurable and predictable.
Everything wears out. Teeth wear out. Tires wear out. Roofs wear
out. Wind, water, snow, hail, pressure changes, sunlight, ice, mold,
bacteria will effect tires and roofs.
Everything wears out. Anything that is used or is made, wears
out. Unfortunately, dentists too often ignore physics.
The question is, what is the best occlusion to lessen wear? This
is the crux of dentistry!
I am sure everyone would agree that fewer teeth would mean greater
chance for wear. 18 wheeler trucks carry heavier loads than small
pickup trucks. And if those 18 wheels are not balanced, the tires
will wear unevenly or the truck will rattle and roll.
Too many dentists think occlusion is unimportant, and it is because
they don't look and observe, or, were not taught much about it.
Blaming the patient instead of examining the occlusion is a cop out
for not learning about the physics of wear, tear and friction.
David DiBenedetto, DMD, author of "The insider's guide to gum disease,
orthodontics, and dentistry. What is not taught in Dental School."
Quote:
Steve |
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| Steven Fawks |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:26 pm |
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Guest
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Yeah. The forces of 'occluding' are irrelevant. The 'perfect'
occlusion will solve all of the other issues. Dream on.
Steve
Quote: The question is, what is the best occlusion to lessen wear? This
is the crux of dentistry! |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:31 pm |
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On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:54:31 -0700 (PDT), oralhealth@comcast.net wrote:
Quote: On Apr 2, 10:42 pm, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
oralhea...@comcast.net wrote:
Instead of a car, let's look at a house,
If you build a house without using a level, over time it won't hold
up as well.
If hinges on a door are not level, and the door is used often, like
the door in the kitchen that hides the trash, the door will break down
and wear quicker.
And you're working on a moveable biologic organism, that never
changes and is fully measurable and predictable.
Everything wears out. Teeth wear out. Tires wear out. Roofs wear
out. Wind, water, snow, hail, pressure changes, sunlight, ice, mold,
bacteria will effect tires and roofs.
Everything wears out. Anything that is used or is made, wears
out.
Just like your arguments and analogies are wearing thin.
Quote: Unfortunately, dentists too often ignore physics.
F = ma
Quote:
The question is, what is the best occlusion to lessen wear? This
is the crux of dentistry!
Bullsh*t.
Quote:
I am sure everyone would agree that fewer teeth would mean greater
chance for wear.
Nope
Quote: 18 wheeler trucks carry heavier loads than small
pickup trucks. And if those 18 wheels are not balanced, the tires
will wear unevenly or the truck will rattle and roll.
There you go with the auto/truck analogy again.
Quote: Too many dentists think occlusion is unimportant, and it is because
they don't look and observe, or, were not taught much about it.
Blaming the patient instead of examining the occlusion is a cop out
for not learning about the physics of wear, tear and friction.
That's a mighty big load of rocks you are hauling around in that
wagon.
Quote:
David DiBenedetto, DMD, author of "The insider's guide to gum disease,
orthodontics, and dentistry. What is not taught in Dental School."
You must have gone to a crappy dental school.
You're one of those "I reject your reality and substitute my own"
kinda guys ain't ya ? No one likes a "know it all", especially when
they are wrong. <that means you> |
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| The Webby |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:48 am |
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In article <dgbbv3lfl3otip9j90n4nnp8o8evcf807i@4ax.com>, Newbie@bix.nex
wrote:
Quote: On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:54:31 -0700 (PDT), oralhealth@comcast.net wrote:
[clip]
Too many dentists think occlusion is unimportant, and it is because
they don't look and observe, or, were not taught much about it.
[clip]
I might add...
A couple of those who supported this theory got me where I am today. (I
cut out the rest of the thread's comments because it just doesn't matter
to what I am going to post.)
My dentist and his surgeon-buddy believed that imperfect occlusion would
destroy my jaw joints; it was just a matter of time, I was a ticking
time bomb so to speak. My dentist (who was a good friend of our family)
convinced me to have an orthodontic/orthognathic correction of my "bite"
***before*** I had any symptoms of any problems ... yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had *no* cosmetic and *no* physical complaints and my dentist agreed
that it wasn't cosmetic. But, he said, "I don't want to see you live the
rest of your life in pain." ... and he said, "Trust me. I know more
about this than you." I trusted my friend. (No longer my friend.)
So, they got a plan and fixed that "problem" ... the fixing of the
problem occlusion destroyed my jaw joints. Ooops ... that wasn't
supposed to happen. Oh ... in fact, if you ask the dentist and the
surgeon, they would tell you that the surgeon didn't do it...
I'm still looking for the butler. I guess he did it.
Oh well ...... that's just the way the cookie crumbled. If you're a
hammer, all the nails better watch out!
The Webby |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:00 am |
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On Apr 7, 8:06 am, "Amatus Cremona" <Nic...@sottovocce.com> wrote:
Quote: Occlusion is not taught in dental school.
Huh!
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Yes!!! read JADA, vol. 135, no. 6. 767-770. Is occlusion
becoming more confusing? by Christensen. !!!! |
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| Amatus Cremona |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:05 am |
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Guest
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Quote: If you build a house without using a level, will it last as long?
Never been in a house built before 1945?
Quote: If the hinges on a door that is constantly used, like the one in the
kitchen that hides the trash, and it is not balanced, how long will it
last?
Depends on how hard one opens and closes the door.
Quote: If I am a carpenter, I will have more work to do over the long run if
things are not balanced. Things will get broken quicker.
Not if your customer is gentle. |
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| Amatus Cremona |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:06 am |
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Quote: Occlusion is not taught in dental school.
Huh!
? |
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| Amatus Cremona |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:48 pm |
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Guest
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Come on!!
Gordon's articles are just editorial pieces based on what he remembers from
the last time he did any dentistry.
DS teaches occlusion for 4 years. That is everything in dentistry.
--
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Amatus
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<oralhealth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:b82b125c-8c77-45ba-80e3-41e7001bc6a8@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Quote: On Apr 7, 8:06 am, "Amatus Cremona" <Nic...@sottovocce.com> wrote:
Occlusion is not taught in dental school.
Huh!
?
Yes!!! read JADA, vol. 135, no. 6. 767-770. Is occlusion
becoming more confusing? by C. !!!! |
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| Mark & Steven Bornfeld |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:38 pm |
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Guest
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Amatus Cremona wrote:
Quote: Come on!!
Gordon's articles are just editorial pieces based on what he remembers from
the last time he did any dentistry.
DS teaches occlusion for 4 years. That is everything in dentistry.
Although things HAVE changed. Frank Celenza and the gnathologists were
very big at NYU (that might be a good name for a pop band). I remember
how much we learned about condylar path and constructing full dentures
in centric relation (RUM position of the condyles). A few years later
he lectured us at an AGD meeting and basically told us "Remember what we
taught you about CR? Fahgeddaboudit!).
Of course, they were also teaching group function for natural
dentition, not canine guidance.
I think if I needed an occlusion review, I'd buy the newest edition of
Dawson's book and read it.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001 |
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| Amatus Cremona |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:04 pm |
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Ahhhhh! ! !
You see,,,,,,,,,,,, DS is four years straight of learning about occlusion.
You learn about various schemes of occlusion. You learn about condylar
pathways. You learn about muscle insertion, innervations, origin, angle of
action, etc. You learn all this. It is then up to the graduate to put this
all together to modify the multitude of choices to fit each individual
patient's needs. There is no such thing as creating one occlusion type for
all patients. Restoring every patient to PKT tripodal contacts with cuspid
rise in *some* specific condylar position will fail miserably in roughly 60%
of the cases. A slight increase in lateral freedom of motion, or a slightly
anterior rest position, or an increase in VDO, or flatter inclined cusps, or
single point CO contacts, or group function, or central incisor guidance in
protrusion, or some other variation which suits the individual will result
in huge success rates.
You cannot build a house with doors strong enough for "The Incredible Thing"
to slam shut every two minutes and expect it to last. You have to either
make revolving doors, or you have to keep Mr. Thing from slamming doors.
--
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Amatus
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"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message
news:IStKj.1235$Xy2.1037@trndny04...
Quote: Amatus Cremona wrote:
Come on!!
Gordon's articles are just editorial pieces based on what he remembers
from the last time he did any dentistry.
DS teaches occlusion for 4 years. That is everything in dentistry.
Although things HAVE changed. Frank Celenza and the gnathologists were
very big at NYU (that might be a good name for a pop band). I remember
how much we learned about condylar path and constructing full dentures in
centric relation (RUM position of the condyles). A few years later he
lectured us at an AGD meeting and basically told us "Remember what we
taught you about CR? Fahgeddaboudit!).
Of course, they were also teaching group function for natural dentition,
not canine guidance.
I think if I needed an occlusion review, I'd buy the newest edition of
Dawson's book and read it.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001 |
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