Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not a
professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding, which
means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to atmospheric humidity
for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low hydrogen.
At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story about the
opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old," like I'd
heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade, such so that
they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said that
once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately started
*irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an oven didn't
help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a chemical reaction had
taken place (with what I thought was rather inert inorganic material
(rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly (if that's a word) said,
yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be reclaimed
by drying in an oven (http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7).
So...what IS the story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted
periods, in out of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless
exposed to Southern-style humidity.

Thanks,
Alan

Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not a
professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding, which
means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to atmospheric humidity
for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low hydrogen.
At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story about the
opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old," like I'd
heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade, such so that
they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said that
once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately started
*irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an oven didn't
help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a chemical reaction had
taken place (with what I thought was rather inert inorganic material
(rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly (if that's a word) said,
yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be reclaimed
by drying in an oven (http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7).
So...what IS the story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted
periods, in out of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless
exposed to Southern-style humidity.

Alan Andrews wrote:
Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not
a professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding,
which means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to atmospheric
humidity for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low
hydrogen. At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story
about the opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old,"
like I'd heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade,
such so that they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said that
once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately started
*irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an oven didn't
help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a chemical reaction
had taken place (with what I thought was rather inert inorganic material
(rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly (if that's a word)
said, yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be
reclaimed by drying in an oven
(http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7). So...what IS the
story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted periods, in out
of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless exposed to
Southern-style humidity.

Alan, stop a bit and think about what you are asking. You are building a
fence! The welds you need on your fence need be little more than decent
tacks.
Unless you are incorporating a heavy gate, there is little stress on a
fence
at any time. You have no need of the ultimate failing strength of 70000
pounds
that you get from perfectly maintained 7018 rods.

I once acquired quite a bit (~100 pounds) of old 7018 rod. It was open,
dumped
into a large cardboard box, and would have never been suitable for a
certified
weld. Yet I welded with it, making dozens of useful items. Were they as
strong
as they would have been if I'd bought new rod each time and kept it in an
oven?
No. Were they plenty strong enough? Absolutely.

You have already gotten conflicting opinions from Hobart and Lincoln, why
would
anything posted on a newsgroup carry any more weight than those?

I would stop worrying and weld up your fence with your rod.

there .. that was worth at LEAST what you paid for it!

Grant Erwin

Put them on a gas barbecue grill if you have one -- that will get a lot
hotter than your kitchen oven, and will eliminate the wife factor...

Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not a
professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding, which
means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to atmospheric humidity
for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low hydrogen.
At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story about the
opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old," like I'd
heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade, such so that
they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said that
once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately started
*irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an oven didn't
help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a chemical reaction had
taken place (with what I thought was rather inert inorganic material
(rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly (if that's a word) said,
yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be reclaimed
by drying in an oven (http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7).
So...what IS the story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted
periods, in out of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless
exposed to Southern-style humidity.

Thanks,
Alan

Roy, would a gas fired barbeque oven work for this application, if it
could achieve 650-700F (as mine can, IIRC).

i

The Lincoln "Stick Electrode Product Catalog"
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c210.pdf
page 46

has this to say
start quote
Re-drying Low Hydrogen Electrodes
Re-drying, when done correctly, restores the electrodes’ ability to
deposit quality welds. Proper re-drying temperature depends upon the
electrode type and its condition.

One hour at the listed final temperature is satisfactory. DO NOT
dry electrodes at higher temperatures. Several hours at lower
temperatures is not equivalent to using the specified
requirements.

Electrodes of the E8018 and higher strength classifications
should be given no more than three 1-hour re-dries in the 700° -
800°F (370° - 430°C) range. This minimizes the possibility of
oxidation of alloys in the coating resulting in lower than normal
tensile or impact properties.

Any low hydrogen electrode should be discarded if excessive redrying
causes the coating to become fragile and flake or break
off while welding, or if there is a noticeable difference in handling
or arc characteristics, such as insufficient arc force.

Electrodes to be re-dried should be removed from the can and
spread out in the oven because each electrode must reach the
drying temperature.


Electrodes which have come in direct contact with water or which have been
exposed to high humidity 180° - 220°F for one hour, then 650° - 750°F for
one hour.

End quote

That temp schedule is not achievable in a standard rod oven, hence the
comments you get from the various sources.

Should you use it? If this was a critical application, toss the rod. If it
is not a critical application, you can use your judgment about drying the
rod per the schedule, then deal with "if there is a noticeable difference
in handling or arc characteristics, such as insufficient arc force". In
most cases, the problems with lousy rod far outweigh the cost of the rod,
not to mention the cost of materials and the time to weld.



Alan Andrews wrote:
Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not
a professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding,
which means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to atmospheric
humidity for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low
hydrogen. At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story
about the opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old,"
like I'd heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade,
such so that they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said that
once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately started
*irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an oven didn't
help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a chemical reaction
had taken place (with what I thought was rather inert inorganic material
(rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly (if that's a word)
said, yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be
reclaimed by drying in an oven
(http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7). So...what IS the
story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted periods, in out
of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless exposed to
Southern-style humidity.

Thanks,
Alan

"Grant Erwin" <grant@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:uQyFj.221$Pc2.102@trndny06...
Alan Andrews wrote:
Some time ago I purchased a 50# box of E7018 Hobart electrodes. I'm not
a professional welder, nor do I have occasion to do that much welding,
which means that I had an open box of low hydrogen exposed to
atmospheric humidity for quite some time, like a year.

I'm in the midst of building a custom steel fence on the front of my
residence property and some of the welding will be done with low
hydrogen. At the local welding supply I mentioned in passing the story
about the opened rods and asked if low hydrogen rods actually "got old,"
like I'd heard for ever. They indicated that they did indeed degrade,
such so that they couldn't even be reconditioned in an oven.

When I got home I called Hobart and spoke with a technician who said
that once low hydrogen was exposed to the atmosphere, it immediately
started *irreversibly* degrading, and that, yes, re-drying them in an
oven didn't help. I said that that would seem to indicate that a
chemical reaction had taken place (with what I thought was rather inert
inorganic material (rutile, for instance)) and he, sorta handwavingly
(if that's a word) said, yeah.

To confuse and confound the question, I found a document on the Web from
Lincoln Electric that indicated that Lincoln E7018 could indeed be
reclaimed by drying in an oven
(http://www.jflf.org/pdfs/papers/fabguide.pdf, p. 7). So...what IS the
story on storing an open quanity of 7018 for protracted periods, in out
of the weather (my garage, for instance), but nonetheless exposed to
Southern-style humidity.

Alan, stop a bit and think about what you are asking. You are building a
fence! The welds you need on your fence need be little more than decent
tacks.
Unless you are incorporating a heavy gate, there is little stress on a
fence
at any time. You have no need of the ultimate failing strength of 70000
pounds
that you get from perfectly maintained 7018 rods.

I once acquired quite a bit (~100 pounds) of old 7018 rod. It was open,
dumped
into a large cardboard box, and would have never been suitable for a
certified
weld. Yet I welded with it, making dozens of useful items. Were they as
strong
as they would have been if I'd bought new rod each time and kept it in an
oven?
No. Were they plenty strong enough? Absolutely.

You have already gotten conflicting opinions from Hobart and Lincoln, why
would
anything posted on a newsgroup carry any more weight than those?

I would stop worrying and weld up your fence with your rod.

there .. that was worth at LEAST what you paid for it!

Grant Erwin


I agree.

Unless we are talking about rods that have been soaked or have been
exposed to wet atmosphere for a very long time and/or bear evidence of
deterioration due to heavy rust or white powder deposits on the coating.
Most/many low hydrogen rods have lime and other hygroscopic materials in
the coating and will attract moisture and if severe it can make them
unpleasant to weld and with poor quality results.

Low hydrogen rods (and SA Lincoln welders) were developed to limit
hydrogen embitterment (WW11 Liberty ships) which is mostly a problem of
high duty cycle loading and is similar to fatigue. It often manifests
itself by underbead cracking and is sometimes the problem when people
point to a crack beside a weld and comment that the weld was stronger than
the parent metal. AFAIK, most plain steel is only good for ~45k tensile
and normal rods like xx10, xx11, xx13, xx14 are not low hydrogen but still
make lots of satisfactory and serviceable welds.

Unless this is a code fence built with high tensile steel you are unlikely
to have any problems even if you do not dry your rods at all, but a simple
drying for ~1hr in a kitchen range @ 350-450 (spread then out on the wire
rack) is unlikely to do any harm and will probably improve their
performance. Only dry them as you need them as repeated drying is not
desirable. The place where it is most important to use new rods from a
sealed container is when welding pressure pipe or high strength steels
subject to high loads and cycles and where failure will have consequences.
I would be very careful of the condition of rods used for welding anything
critical and particularly trailer hitches or suspensions for on road use.

If it is not possible to keep you rods in a warm dryer, it is worthwhile
to keep them in containers that limit the contact with air, and to open
new boxes when doing critical work.

Just my .02, YMMV

"...or white powder deposits on the coating."

Funny you should mention that. They DO have a white powdery residue on
them. That's bad, I take it?

Roy, would a gas fired barbeque oven work for this application, if it
could achieve 650-700F (as mine can, IIRC).

i

"...or white powder deposits on the coating."

Funny you should mention that. They DO have a white powdery residue on
them. That's bad, I take it?