|
Science Forum Index » Space - Shuttle Forum » Best shuttle pilot?
Page 2 of 3 Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
|
| Author |
Message |
| André, PE1PQX |
 Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:59 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Alan Erskine beweerde :
Quote: André>; "PE1PQX" <Andre_geenviagra@pe1pqx.eu> wrote in message
news:mn.326e7d8394484b0d.88137@pe1pqx.eu...
Crippen flew it first from orbit to landing. However, I do not know if
he was helped by computers or not...
From Gemini onwards, they were all helped by computers.
What about Mercury, were these missions also guided by others
(computers or misscion control) than de pilot?
At least Mercury-Redstone was not 'piloted' by Shepard...
André |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| John |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:05 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
On Mar 6, 11:55 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
Quote: "Danny Deger" <dannyde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Cj" <c...@m.com> wrote in messagenews:fqm7t5$u1t$1@aioe.org...
Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
Steve Nagel for flying skills and Charlie Bolden for command/leadership
skills.
Supporting info?
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Danny used to work for the sim folks who observed crew performance
throughout training. My impression, especially when it comes command
presence/leadership, is that it is a matter of "you'll know it when
you see it". You can't really quantify or establish metrics (at least
I haven't seen anyone succeed) for it. So it might be difficult of
someone to list a set of persuasive arguement. But . . . any
anecdotes that could be offered would be fun to read.
Take care . . .
John |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Jeff Findley |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:39 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Cj" <cjw@m.com> wrote in message news:fqm7t5$u1t$1@aioe.org...
Quote: Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
This thread is silly. There have been so few shuttle flights, it's hard to
compare one pilot to another when each has flown the shuttle only a handful
of times.
Jeff
--
A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:37 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Cj" <cjw@m.com> wrote in message news:fqm7t5$u1t$1@aioe.org...
Quote: Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
Steve Nagel for flying skills and Charlie Bolden for command/leadership
skills.
Danny Deger
> |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Danny Deger |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:39 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Derek Lyons" <fairwater@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:47d126c9.803246312@news.supernews.com...
Quote: John Doe <jdoe@doe.org> wrote:
Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
One that would stand out for me is the female commander (name escapes me
now) who had a number of computer failures during launch and kept her
cool and continued.
That's not even remotely close to being a viable candidate for 'best',
because that behavior is nothing more than the minimal acceptable
standard.
I agree. This was minimal standards.
Danny Deger
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:51 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Derek Lyons" <fairwater@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:47d126c9.803246312@news.supernews.com...
John Doe <jdoe@doe.org> wrote:
Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
One that would stand out for me is the female commander (name escapes me
now) who had a number of computer failures during launch and kept her
cool and continued.
That's not even remotely close to being a viable candidate for 'best',
because that behavior is nothing more than the minimal acceptable
standard.
I agree. This was minimal standards.
Danny and I in agreement - mark your calendar folks!  :)
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:54 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
André, PE1PQX <Andre_geenviagra@pe1pqx.eu> wrote:
Quote: Alan Erskine beweerde :
André>; "PE1PQX" <Andre_geenviagra@pe1pqx.eu> wrote in message
news:mn.326e7d8394484b0d.88137@pe1pqx.eu...
Crippen flew it first from orbit to landing. However, I do not know if
he was helped by computers or not...
From Gemini onwards, they were all helped by computers.
What about Mercury, were these missions also guided by others
(computers or misscion control) than de pilot?
You are confusing two different issues - off ship computers used to
_calculate_ trajectories (which all programs used) and on ship
computers used to _control_ trajectory (which all programs except
Mercury used).
The difference may seem minimal, but it's not.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:55 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"Danny Deger" <dannydeger@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Cj" <cjw@m.com> wrote in message news:fqm7t5$u1t$1@aioe.org...
Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
Steve Nagel for flying skills and Charlie Bolden for command/leadership
skills.
Supporting info?
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:28 pm |
|
|
|
|
On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, John Doe <j...@doe.org> wrote:
Quote:
I was thinking that perhaps the pilots of the last Columbia flight might
deserve some mention. Their skills and mental status would have been
tested to the limit since, for what would have seemed like an eternity,
they knew they had a sick ship that was loosing control.
They may have been tested but you don't know the results.
Quote: But I see the potential for them showing off exactly why they needed really skilled people in the front.
Not to be crass. How can you see the potential?
I knew them and did some training with them (none piloting related).
People tend to put them on a pedestal and worship them, but they are
just ordinary people, not gods or supermen (women). There are many
people like them. All the astronauts did is pass a selection process
that they volunteered for. It is sort of like an unscientific poll,
the sample population is small. Especially the non pilot astronauts,
there are thousands of people like them. As for the pilots, test
pilots are the same |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:11 pm |
|
|
|
|
On Mar 6, 8:05 pm, John Doe <j...@doe.org> wrote:
Quote: but I assume NASA does from the
cockpit recorders,
There are none |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:49 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
John <pelchat@charter.net> wrote:
Quote: On Mar 6, 11:55 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
"Danny Deger" <dannyde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Cj" <c...@m.com> wrote in messagenews:fqm7t5$u1t$1@aioe.org...
Who is/has been the best shuttle pilot / commander?
Steve Nagel for flying skills and Charlie Bolden for command/leadership
skills.
Supporting info?
Danny used to work for the sim folks who observed crew performance
throughout training.
I know that.
Quote: My impression, especially when it comes command
presence/leadership, is that it is a matter of "you'll know it when
you see it". You can't really quantify or establish metrics (at least
I haven't seen anyone succeed) for it. So it might be difficult of
someone to list a set of persuasive arguement. But . . . any
anecdotes that could be offered would be fun to read.
Precisely.
Command qualities are an interesting topic. Back in the Navy we used
to debate endlessly the finer points of differentiating between
skippers you'd want to go to sea with, and skippers you'd want to go
to war with. The two sets were (surprisingly to many lubbers) not
congruent.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| John Doe |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:50 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Would it be correct to state that situations where a CDR's skills would
really be testes would not generally make it to the public and hence,
we could not possibly discuss who the best CDR has been ?
I was thinking that perhaps the pilots of the last Columbia flight might
deserve some mention. Their skills and mental status would have been
tested to the limit since, for what would have seemed like an eternity,
they knew they had a sick ship that was loosing control.
I have no idea how they behaved and wether they just watched the
computers try to keep the ship in one piece or whether they actively got
involved in a calm and non panicked way. But I see the potential for
them showing off exactly why they needed really skilled people in the front. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Derek Lyons |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:25 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
John Doe <jdoe@doe.org> wrote:
Quote: Would it be correct to state that situations where a CDR's skills would
really be testes would not generally make it to the public and hence,
we could not possibly discuss who the best CDR has been ?
No, it would not be correct. The problem with judging who is 'best'
from the POV of the man in the street is that said man generally does
not comprehend the standards to judge them by. They aren't objective
and they aren't written in a language he speaks.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| John Doe |
| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:05 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
behlingjo@gmail.com wrote:
Quote: They may have been tested but you don't know the results.
Correct. But from the public's point of view, the Columbia pilots were
faced with decisions and situations which would have tested their
abilities to the max, a situation not faced (as far as we know) by other
crews. We don't know how they reacted , but I assume NASA does from the
cockpit recorders, and I assume they acted professionally and correctly.
Quote: People tend to put them on a pedestal and worship them, but they are
just ordinary people, not gods or supermen (women).
It isn't a question of heroes or gods. Someone asked who was the best
pilot. I merely pointed out that this crew is the one that had to test
their skills the most because they became aware of a degrading situation
and had some time to react to it.
Does that make them "the best", we don't know because we don't know how
other crews would have reacted in such a condition so we can't compare.
Perhaps some flight sim instructor might have a better idea of how to
compare various shuttle pilots.
Perhaps the original poster should have asked the question differently:
All politics aside, if they had to fly a very special Shuttle mission
without advanced training/preparation (say they had to do some emergency
work on some satellite), which pilot would be considered as the best to
do this job ? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| André, PE1PQX |
| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:49 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
behlingjo@gmail.com was zeer hard aan het denken :
Quote: On Mar 6, 8:05 pm, John Doe <j...@doe.org> wrote:
but I assume NASA does from the
cockpit recorders,
There are none
All orbiters carry a flight data recoreder and possibly a voice data
recorder AFAIK. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
