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Science Forum Index » Psychology Forum » If everything feels wrong about a relationship
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| cybercat |
 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:33 pm |
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Chances are, it's wrong for you.
I know this sounds obvious, but some of the most passionate attractions are
for people who are alllll wrong for us.
The kind of thing where, you're in emotional pain all the time, there's
turmoil on a regular basis, but you think you just can't live without the
person. For some reason, they feel the same way. You both cling to the
sickness.
What a nightmare. And sometimes we cannot not see way out until we ARE out.
If you find yourself in anything that sounds like this, bite that bullet,
give it a good push, and get that person out of your life. |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:47 pm |
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Plotinus, and several other ancients, regard these emotional
attachments as a mental disease.
Epictetus does mention one sucessful marriage, but goes on to imply
that it takes very emotionally mature and rational people to make it
work and not have unrealistic expectations.
We are hominids. We evolved in small tribes and villages with very
short life expectancies. We had the whole village and clan to rely on
for emotional support, and nowadays, put way too much on any single
individual since we lack these other relationships. |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:40 pm |
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Aristotle:"most men are such slaves to passion that they'd do better
in the hands of a more rational master."
Shrinks, Therapists, Clergy, et al, pretend to be that rational
master. The results of that mastery has not been promising.
The Stoics were not, as commonly thot, "stoic", or unmoved by passion,
but regarded their emotions as their tools, not their masters.
Epictetus, for instance, rather than "turn the other cheek", said that
when provoked or attacked, first consider whether there is any
innocent observer you can teach by your response. If not, then whether
your antagonist is teachable; but if not that either, what you may
teach yourself by your response. This has already exceeded the
attention spans of most people.
But he went on to note that since you did not create your own body,
the divine did, that you are not the owner thereof, but only steward;
and as such you have a duty to maintain it in good enuf condition so
that it may serve another day. If that means killing your assailant,
since he be unteachable and a risk to the welfare of others, then by
all means.
Stoics dont say to not have attachments, but to be realistic in our
expectations. They were not ascetics, but if you are going to have
sex, make sure that you have the resources to properly raise a child
before siring one. I beg to differ, in that emotional attachment makes
us mammals; it is reason that makes us hominids. |
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| cybercat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:17 am |
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"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:e2bcd955-14bf-4116-a7a0-6c2b24eff7ea@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Plotinus, and several other ancients, regard these emotional
attachments as a mental disease.
Epictetus does mention one sucessful marriage, but goes on to imply
that it takes very emotionally mature and rational people to make it
work and not have unrealistic expectations.
These guys were living in an age that exalted "reason" and denigrated
emotion. A harmful and false dichotomy mimicked during the so-called
"Enlightenment."
Emotional attachment makes us human. The kind of thing I experienced
was not just emotional attachment, it was a kind of chemistry that bred
sickness. Psychological sickness, physical sickness, emotional sickness.
Just being away from this way has made me realize how harmful he was
for me.
I'm not saying that he is inherently bad or sick, just that we together are. |
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| cybercat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:19 pm |
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"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote :
Quote: I beg to differ, in that emotional attachment makes
us mammals; it is reason that makes us hominids.
I can see why you are stuck on the ancients.  |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:38 pm |
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On Feb 26, 1:19 pm, "cybercat" <cyberpu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: "Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote :
I beg to differ, in that emotional attachment makes
us mammals; it is reason that makes us hominids.
I can see why you are stuck on the ancients.
Thanx, but it aint only ancients. Anthropology is full of reports of
lifestyles that differ from our romantic mated illusions. "The Forest
People", an anthro classic on the Mbuti pygmi, reported that 1/3 of
them found someone at puberty and stayed mated monogamously for life.
Another third do what we now call serial monogamy, and the remainder,
as we now say, screwed around. Whatever your lifestyle was, it was not
expected to be the emotional model for everyone else.
Then too, there's the Mosou of SW China, way the fuck up in the
Eastern Himalyas, where the grandmothers own all the houses, and
approve of the men, if they are good mentors, to live polyamorously
with them. Because they live communally, with so many eyeballs around
24/7, the rape and childhood sexual abuse rate is zero. What is that
worth?
Monagamous mating sounds good in principle, but the resulting nuclear
family home creates private spaces where those who are bigger and
stronger can abuse others without any witnesses. Not all women have
the judgement to tell whether a man is self controlled enuf or not,
and we deal with massive amounts of trauma on that account.
The Mosou girls can go out with whatever man strikes their fancy, but
the children belong to the house, not the mother. They wanna make sure
the kids dont get hurt by the mistakes adults make in their sex lives.
I've pointed this out before, and the silence is just deafening. |
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| cybercat |
| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:23 pm |
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"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:a2bdd148-a94e-482c-bdf1-da55a19f60dd@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Quote: On Feb 26, 1:19 pm, "cybercat" <cyberpu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote :
I beg to differ, in that emotional attachment makes
us mammals; it is reason that makes us hominids.
I can see why you are stuck on the ancients. :)
Thanx, but it aint only ancients. Anthropology is full of reports of
lifestyles that differ from our romantic mated illusions. "The Forest
People", an anthro classic on the Mbuti pygmi, reported that 1/3 of
them found someone at puberty and stayed mated monogamously for life.
Another third do what we now call serial monogamy, and the remainder,
as we now say, screwed around. Whatever your lifestyle was, it was not
expected to be the emotional model for everyone else.
Point taken!
My point was, just because someone evokes strong emotion, or just
because there is a strong attachment, does not mean that the relationship
is a positive thing. For a while that is what I must have been thinking, if
I *was* thinking, lol. Getting this poisonous relationship out of my life
has been deeply, sweetly liberating.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:37 pm |
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<My point was, just because someone evokes strong emotion, or just
because there is a strong attachment, does not mean that the
relationship
is a positive thing. For a while that is what I must have been
thinking, if
I *was* thinking, lol. Getting this poisonous relationship out of my
life
has been deeply, sweetly liberating.>
You may be an early adapter. I dont see a lotta people in my neck of
Ozark woods, but those I see moving in are not often monagamous. There
is the sense that not only is the relationship model promoted by the
media poisonous, but the whole urban culture supporting it is. How do
you remain sane when you live in an insane asylum?
I have a house guest now who expresses his gratitude to be out in the
real natural world amid the trees and wild life as his ancestors were.
We evolved to handle only a small number of human contacts. After
that, its just traffic. |
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| Day Brown |
| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:15 pm |
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On Feb 27, 11:51 pm, "cybercat" <cyberpu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: You have a very interesting mind.
If you recall, Buddha, Jesus, and many other sages withdrew from
society for a time. this had the effect of removing the power of group
think. Anyone else permitted to get away from habitual relationships
gets time to think their own thoughts. Especially if they have access
to the classics to read the thots of other times and other peoples
with different forms of group think.
Then too, I was born on a farm and come from a line of yeoman farmers
going back 10,000 years who spent their days with only the ass of an
ox to talk to. Its a valuable experience that is sadly all too lacking
in what passes for modern civilization with media telling people what
to think all the time.
I can see where those of us online are exposed to information over
load, and have a similar effect of shutting off the bullshit to
think. |
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| cybercat |
| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:16 am |
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"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:8c0f5b79-1238-48fa-bb7c-3866ed269538@62g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
Quote: My point was, just because someone evokes strong emotion, or just
because there is a strong attachment, does not mean that the
relationship
is a positive thing. For a while that is what I must have been
thinking, if
I *was* thinking, lol. Getting this poisonous relationship out of my
life
has been deeply, sweetly liberating.
You may be an early adapter. I dont see a lotta people in my neck of
Ozark woods, but those I see moving in are not often monagamous. There
is the sense that not only is the relationship model promoted by the
media poisonous, but the whole urban culture supporting it is. How do
you remain sane when you live in an insane asylum?
I have a house guest now who expresses his gratitude to be out in the
real natural world amid the trees and wild life as his ancestors were.
We evolved to handle only a small number of human contacts. After
that, its just traffic.
You have a very interesting mind. |
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