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Science Forum Index » Cognitive Science Forum » Re: Reconsidering Halton Arp
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| Author |
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| James Harris |
 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:19 pm |
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"Bjorn Reese" <breese@see.signature> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.20.19.37.28.553701@see.signature>...
Quote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:27:32 -0800, James Harris wrote:
Real science is data first.
Galileo used thought-experiments, and only very little empirical
data, to device his mechanics. Galileo's mechanics was used to
pursuade the scientific community that the Earth was not at the
center of the Universe.
Galileo became *famous* in his day, and did so by dramaticaly
improving the telescope and introducing it to the military.
As for going against the earth-centered ideas of his time, Galileo had
help from outside sources, like the book by Copernicus, banned, by,
wasn't it the Catholic Church?
And his *observations*, notably watching the changing phases of Venus
through his telescopes, were what ultimately convinced him that
Copernicus had to be right.
His *data* was challenged by others who were firmly set on the notion
that the sun went around the earth, and couldn't care less if the
DATA, like phases of Venus proved otherwise.
Galileo was frustrated enough about the craziness of his society that
he wrote that book that got him in trouble, in which a simpleton
character questioning the data represented the Pope.
Quote: I agree with your point that data should not be ignored. However,
as data may be inaccurate or incorrect it can be a good idea to
defer decisions based of the data until more data has been
obtained or better sensors have been built. To quote Popper:
"I have always stressed the need for some dogmatism: the
dogmatic scientist has an important role to play. If we
give into criticism too easily, we shall never find where
the real power of our theories lies."
How much dogmatism is necessary is probably in a subjective
decision.
When data that refutes a theory is ignored based on the notion that
just because the theory is liked by a lot of people the data must be
wrong.
If data appears to refute a theory, then you check the data.
Ultimately, if the data stands with the state of the art at the time,
then the theory has to be junked, or revised.
That's because science ultimately has to give the right answers in the
real world.
You go with the state of the art at the time as if scientists stop
trusting their instruments, then what do they have?
Quote: You may find some answers to your questions about how science
works in a good book on the theory of science. I recommend
"What is this thing called Science?" by Chalmers. You may in
particular find the chapters on Kuhn and Lakatos interesting.
Oh, so you think you know how science works from *one* book??!!!
Please re-read what I wrote. "Some answers" does not equate
"all answers". Furthermore, reading one well-considered book
on the subject is probably better than zero.
Your proposal is condescending, especially given that I have a degree
in physics, so I have *four* years of training on what is science from
a major university.
That's part of the problem with dogmatic thinking. You want to
believe you have the answers, right? So you read something, love it,
and then proselytize.
Physics students are taught to rely on the data, not on dogma.
Quote: I was trying to be helpful to offer a reference which can
explain many of the questions that seem to puzzle you. I have,
however, become unsure if you are genuinely interested in
answers, or if you just use the questions for the sake of
argument. If it is the latter, please count me out of this
discussion.
Well, I hope you're being honest and you'll quit chattering because
you sound like a Creationist or some other fundamentalist anyway.
I get sick of people who believe they have all the answers willing to
waste a lot of other people's time pushing their "truth".
And I notice you deleted out my question asking about your background.
Just part of my background is a Bachelor's of Science in physics. I
spent my four years and got my degree.
What have you done besides read a book?
James Harris |
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