Main Page | Report this Page
 
Loading..
   
Science Forum Index  »  Cognitive Science Forum  »  MindForth 20.JAN.2008
Page 1 of 1    
Author Message
Guest
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:49 am
The MindForth AI-Complete milestone is near as we
troubleshoot one bug after another in the free AI
source code written in the Win32Forth programming
language. Our JavaScript Mind.html Tutorial AI
lags far behind as we race to the finish line.

Most recently we solved a mystifying bug that was
causing the AI to ask unnecessary questions about
things that it already knew. It turned out that
activation from deep concepts was not passing
properly upwards to the shallow English lexicon
during the generation of a sentence of thought,
with the result that the AI Mind was rejecting
and detouring away from the thinking of verbs
that were not sufficiently activated to be valid
components of a meandering chain of thought.

The solution to the extra-questions bug has left
us facing a totally different bug. The chain of
AI thought is being interrupted because more than
one concept has an activation high enough to win
selection as the subject of a thought, with the
result that thoughts are jumping inexplicably
from one topic to another. At Microsoft, such
behavior might be called not a bug but a feature.
We won't quibble about the nomenclature but we
do want to know why any given mental behavior is
happening inside the MindForth artificial mind.

Oh, gee, what an easy bug! (Dare we say such a thing?)
Our following (edited) diagnostic output shows us
that the nounPhrase module, after the thinking of
"CATS EAT FISH", which should be followed by
"FISH EAT BUGS", is urging the selection of both
FISH and GERMS, but GERMS wins because of higher
activation, and the AI says, "GERMS KILL CATS".

nounPhrase: aud = 340 urging psi concept #78 FISH activation = 19

nounPhrase: aud = 285 urging psi concept #80 GERMS activation = 20

To the experienced AI-Mind-attendant eye, is is
fishy that FISH and GERMS are both near the psiDamp
"residuum" value of twenty (20) that is left on a
concept immediately after the word of the concept
has served as a coomponent in thought-gerneration.
Obviously, the activation of these two concepts
has just been lowered by the operation of the
psiDamp mind-module. It may be possible to remove
the bug simply by removing an unwarranted call to
psiDamp. Let's comment out the call in nounPhrase.
No, that's not where the problem is. We need to
thoroughly analyze the whole picture of calls to
psiDamp and how the AI can keep only one concept
highly active at a time.

--------------
Second Session

Our Diagnostic display mode shows that too many calls
are being made to the audDamp module.

Robot: GERMS WHAT DO GERMS DO
Human: g
psiDamp called for urpsi = 59 by module ID #104 Audition
erms k
psiDamp called for urpsi = 80 by module ID #104 Audition
ill c
psiDamp called for urpsi = 81 by module ID #104 Audition
ats

psiDamp called for urpsi = 81 by module ID #104 Audition

Robot: CATS
psiDamp called for urpsi = 76 by module ID #62 verbPhrase
E
psiDamp called for urpsi = 76 by module ID #104 Audition
AT F
psiDamp called for urpsi = 77 by module ID #104 Audition
ISH
psiDamp called for urpsi = 78 by module ID #104 Audition

Robot: CATS EAT FISH
Human:
Robot: GERMS
psiDamp called for urpsi = 80 by module ID #62 verbPhrase
K
psiDamp called for urpsi = 80 by module ID #104 Audition
ILL C
psiDamp called for urpsi = 81 by module ID #104 Audition
ATS
psiDamp called for urpsi = 76 by module ID #104 Audition

Robot: GERMS KILL CATS

We may set up a general principle here that we do not
want a known, reentrant concept to go to psiDamp from
the generative module (i.e., nounPhrase or verbPhrase)
that selects the concept, but rather from Audition
when the concept is laid back down again at the
forefront of memory. There are several reasons for
adopting this principle. First of all, Audition is
a catch-all venue through which all words thought by
the AI mind must pass. If we let the generative modules
just think the words and let Audition psi-damp them,
then we do not have to code a psiDamp-call into each
and every generative module. Secondly, this principle
may be helpful in those situations where the AI "detours"
into asking a question, but no human user provides the
answer. The AI might then repeat the question-triggering
word several times, each time spreading activation both
backwards and sideways to other concepts, so that
eventually some other thought is generated. It would
be like human beings repeating a word several times
to themselves, in order to remember something about
the word.

ATM/Mentifex
--
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html
http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
http://onsingularity.com/user/mentifex
Back to top
Frank
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:06 am
Guest
ATM, Just some observations: I of course find the same issues you
are having, but on a different scale. The 1K mind core you are
working on rejuvenates rapidly and regularly, wait till you pump the
core up in size, the problems, stray activations, rise as well. I am
working from a 10K core that does not rejuvenate as regularly, I did
notice in the Think module you state, examine recent psi nodes for
activations and if found go into English. Well with 1K core
rejuvenating frequently recent has a differen meaning then a 10K
core. So I had to modify my examination from looking at the entire
core to literally just a fraction to include the recent activities.
Doing this reduced the stray activation and unrelated thoughts
generated.

An aside, I often have thought about how you go about training an AI
mind. So I put together input that keeps the AI asking what, always a
new concept entered by me. Of course once I repeat concepts it no
longer ask what. After entering 50-60 sentences I then ask the mind
questions, who are you, who am I, what is a dog, what does cat eat...
all question based on the previous sentences I entered and the AI
responded with single answers all in line with what I asked. Actually
it surprised the mess out of me. Next I'll attempt to ask a quesion
that does not have a direct answer in the core to see how it is
handled. I was so surprized at the results I just kept asking
questions I knew there should be answers to.

I still have not upload the '08 version maybe I'll get to it before
the weekend gets here.

Frank
AIMind-i.com
Back to top
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:18 pm
Frank wrote:
Quote:
ATM, Just some observations: I of course find the same issues you
are having, but on a different scale. The 1K mind core you are
working on rejuvenates rapidly and regularly, wait till you pump the
core up in size, the problems, stray activations, rise as well.

FJR, you mention the "cns" core size most opportunely,
because with my "AI-Complete" uploads of yesterday
(22.JAN.2008) for the first time I am ready to start
doubling the mind-core size of MindForth in the near
future. Previously I felt no need to have a large mind-core
because I could work on everything I needed to in 1K.

Quote:
I am working from a 10K core that does not rejuvenate
as regularly, I did notice in the Think module you state,
examine recent psi nodes for activations and if found
go into English. Well with 1K core rejuvenating frequently
recent has a differen meaning then a 10K core.
So I had to modify my examination from looking at the entire
core to literally just a fraction to include the recent activities.
Doing this reduced the stray activation and unrelated
thoughts generated.

An aside, I often have thought about how you go about
training an AI mind.

Just today I updated the User Manual at
http://mind.sourceforge.net/m4thuser.html
for the first time in a year or two, with the
following material about your own AI:

"As AI Mind versions proliferate in Forth
and other programming languages, you may
want to install and try out alternative
AI Mind versions such as
http://aimind-i.com -- Franks AI Mind
by Mr. Frank J. Russo -- a version which
tends to incorporate theoretical and algorithmic
improvements from the original MindForth,
while going beyond the original with such
advanced features as the ability to send
and receive e-mail, and the ability to
surf the World Wide Web."

Quote:
So I put together input that keeps the AI asking what, always a
new concept entered by me. Of course once I repeat concepts it no
longer ask what. After entering 50-60 sentences I then ask the mind
questions, who are you, who am I, what is a dog, what does cat eat...
all question based on the previous sentences I entered and the AI
responded with single answers all in line with what I asked. Actually
it surprised the mess out of me. Next I'll attempt to ask a quesion
that does not have a direct answer in the core to see how it is
handled. I was so surprized at the results I just kept asking
questions I knew there should be answers to.

I still have not uploaded the '08 version maybe I'll get to it
before the weekend gets here.

Frank
AIMind-i.com

I don't really understand what John Passaniti is
griping about so much in his recent post.
Here we are, trying to advance the state
of the art, and JPass can olnly gripe
instead of leading the cheering section?

Anyway, Frank, I would like to respond here
to your remarks about activation-levels in the
"MindForth 15.JAN.2008" thread. You say,
"Or - it has just occured to me - you are using
the value set for spike from nounact of the subject?"

I am not sure off the top of my head. I do know,
however, that the activation-settings of MindForth
are all getting tightened up in recent releases.

The 22.JAN.2008 uploads were the first-ever
truly working Mind.Forth AI. First I uploaded
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html
in the morning, after two days of hard work.

In that first working model (after 13 years),
I discovered that pressing the [Enter] key
to force the AI to pause for user input,
actually introduces glitches if the AI is
in the middle of thinking a thought.
So therefore I made the "non-invasive"
Tab key cause a pause for user input,
and I wrote up the change in the User Manual.
(Tab still switches display modes.)

Over the course of the day (22jan2008),
it bothered me that here I finally had a
working AI Mind in Forth, but its performance
was so lackluster and so unconvincing, so I
wrote a mechanism to detect repetitious
thoughts and I uploaded it separately to
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html
without updating the VirtualEntity site,
because the repetition-detecting version
needs to be improved a little more.

From now on it will be so pleasant to be
coding an AI that already works, rather
than eliminating bug after bug after bug,
just to see some vexing new bug pop up.

I may try to fall a little 'Net-silent now,
instead of constantly harping about
MindForth, although I keep brainstorming
new AI Mind ideas that I would like to
tell the world about. For instance, my
"thotnum" method of detecting repetitious
thoughts engendered in me today a way
of perhaps consolidating the knowledge-base
during the Rejuvenate process -- just check
all the memories of thoughts and remove
any duplicates. In that way, the knowledge
in the KB becomes more concentrated.

Whoever looks at MindForth right now
might think it's still pretty primitive,
and it is, but it _does_ think and
it no longer spouts the gibberish
for which Mentifex AI was famous.

By the way, "The answer is 42."
That's how many years it took me
to solve AI in theory (1979) and
in software (22 January 2008),
starting in December of 1965.

Bye for now.

ATM/Mentifex
--
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html
http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
http://onsingularity.com/user/mentifex
Back to top
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:20 pm
Just letting people know that because of the sporge attack on the
usenet comp.robotics.misc newsgroup, messages like this quickly get
burried. Because of this, Gordon McComb set up a web based discussion
group as an alternative place to discuss robotics.

I know there are benefits to usenet. Particularly because the news
readers allow you to consolidate all the groups you subscribe to in
one place. But, until this sporge attack is stopped, I don't think
there is really a choice.

Here is Gordon's discussion site;
http://robotpalace.com/forum/index.php

Joe Dunfee
Back to top
Guest
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:21 am
news.la.sbcglobal.net wrote:
Quote:
I would encourage anyone working on "out of the box" ideas like MindForth to
continue on. I have't looked into the technical aspects of this particuliar
algorithm involving your AI experimentation, but I would encourage your
posts to this newsgroup. MindForth kinda sounds like a Turing Machine on
the surface, I would like to hear from you how it is different.

MindForth is not a rigidly-defined entity like a Turing Machine,
but rather just a software implementation of "spreading activation"
among deep concepts giving rise to linguistic thought. See
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html or
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html for Free AI Download.
Quote:

I developed the Three Tiered Behavioral Archetecture I call The Triune OS
for robotics - most autonomous robots today use the general idea behind this
concept including JPL, and the DARPA Grand Challenge robots.

A "Triune Operating System" for robotics -- makes one wonder
what the three-in-one parts of it are.

Quote:

I encourage you to keep researching and posting to this newsgroup - I read
your posts!

Don
AI Engineering
[...]
Thank you for the encouragement and for reading.

Going out on a limb here, i.e, stating goals that I
may not be able to live up to, I would like to show
my appreciation for the above post by providing
a glimpse into the "back office" of Mentifex AI.
Here are the previously secret further goals
for Mind.Forth artificial intelligence:

Tasks (from the MindForth Programming Journal template)
Post-22-January-2008 True-AI-followup tasks
[27.JAN.2008] Remove old change-log entries prior to True AI.
[27.JAN.2008] Improve the repetition-detecting "thotnum"
system in such a way that it not only activates the oldest
post-vault concept, but also starts a chain of thought going.
[1.FEB.2008] Remove "actset" code.
[1.FEB.2008] Remove HCI "uract" code and "uract" in general,
because subject-verb-object inputs no longer need
a descending scale of activations when the Moving Wave
Algorithm lets all concepts be activated equally.
Perhaps let Instantiate use a numeric, standard activation.

[ ] Ensure that a thought will be generated
even if the user enters no input upon start-up.
[ ] Expand the repetition-detecting "thotnum" system
into a mechanism for knowledge-base (KB) consolidation,
i.e., the weeding out of duplicate memory traces, so that
each Rejuvenate cycle will "compress" the AI knowledge base.
[ ] Remove a lot of commented-out material.
[ ] Start putting permanent comments into
parentheses so that backslash comments may be deleted
without ill effect by the JavaScript program for doing so.
[ ] Prevent "echo" of output older than the last thought.
[ ] Make sure input of "you" activates "I" and vice versa.
[ ] Increase the size of the "cns" memory capacity.
[ ] Study and clarify the lopsi/hipsi scheme.
Integrate it not only with SVO but also with other
mind-modules. If possible, use "hipsi" directly with
psiDamp and retire the "urpsi" used in psiDamp.
[ ] Utterly streamline the whole system of
conceptual activations so that Forth AI coders will find it
easy to calibrate activation-levels in their own Forthminds.
[ ] Start publishing only de-commented code in the
normal release venues and start archiving each fully-commented
release as its own special page somewhere, so that people may
track what changes have occurred and consult the comments.
[ ] Among task items, "linkify" any completed task item
to the special archival-version page of the task-accomplishment.
[ ] Take out slow-downs for the sake of humans and see how fast
the AI can think at top speed, especially in machine reasoning.
[ ] Introduce intransitive verbs of being and becoming.
[ ] Make a public domain upload with WinZIP.
[ ] Change bootstrap to include both English and German.
[ ] For adjective "all" implement supervenient concepts.

Other Forth AI coders are welcome to "jump the gun"
and implement these and other goals ahead of time.
http://AIMind-i.com is far ahead in some aspects.

- Arthur
Back to top
news.la.sbcglobal.net
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:32 am
Guest
I would encourage anyone working on "out of the box" ideas like MindForth to
continue on. I have't looked into the technical aspects of this particuliar
algorithm involving your AI experimentation, but I would encourage your
posts to this newsgroup. MindForth kinda sounds like a Turing Machine on
the surface, I would like to hear from you how it is different.

I developed the Three Tiered Behavioral Archetecture I call The Triune OS
for robotics - most autonomous robots today use the general idea behind this
concept including JPL, and the DARPA Grand Challenge robots.

I encourage you to keep researching and posting to this newsgroup - I read
your posts!

Don
AI Engineering

<mentifex@myuw.net> wrote in message
news:d9b90a1e-f8a5-46e4-986c-498bf4caec96@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Quote:


Frank wrote:
ATM, Just some observations: I of course find the same issues you
are having, but on a different scale. The 1K mind core you are
working on rejuvenates rapidly and regularly, wait till you pump the
core up in size, the problems, stray activations, rise as well.

FJR, you mention the "cns" core size most opportunely,
because with my "AI-Complete" uploads of yesterday
(22.JAN.2008) for the first time I am ready to start
doubling the mind-core size of MindForth in the near
future. Previously I felt no need to have a large mind-core
because I could work on everything I needed to in 1K.

I am working from a 10K core that does not rejuvenate
as regularly, I did notice in the Think module you state,
examine recent psi nodes for activations and if found
go into English. Well with 1K core rejuvenating frequently
recent has a differen meaning then a 10K core.
So I had to modify my examination from looking at the entire
core to literally just a fraction to include the recent activities.
Doing this reduced the stray activation and unrelated
thoughts generated.

An aside, I often have thought about how you go about
training an AI mind.

Just today I updated the User Manual at
http://mind.sourceforge.net/m4thuser.html
for the first time in a year or two, with the
following material about your own AI:

"As AI Mind versions proliferate in Forth
and other programming languages, you may
want to install and try out alternative
AI Mind versions such as
http://aimind-i.com -- Franks AI Mind
by Mr. Frank J. Russo -- a version which
tends to incorporate theoretical and algorithmic
improvements from the original MindForth,
while going beyond the original with such
advanced features as the ability to send
and receive e-mail, and the ability to
surf the World Wide Web."

So I put together input that keeps the AI asking what, always a
new concept entered by me. Of course once I repeat concepts it no
longer ask what. After entering 50-60 sentences I then ask the mind
questions, who are you, who am I, what is a dog, what does cat eat...
all question based on the previous sentences I entered and the AI
responded with single answers all in line with what I asked. Actually
it surprised the mess out of me. Next I'll attempt to ask a quesion
that does not have a direct answer in the core to see how it is
handled. I was so surprized at the results I just kept asking
questions I knew there should be answers to.

I still have not uploaded the '08 version maybe I'll get to it
before the weekend gets here.

Frank
AIMind-i.com

I don't really understand what John Passaniti is
griping about so much in his recent post.
Here we are, trying to advance the state
of the art, and JPass can olnly gripe
instead of leading the cheering section?

Anyway, Frank, I would like to respond here
to your remarks about activation-levels in the
"MindForth 15.JAN.2008" thread. You say,
"Or - it has just occured to me - you are using
the value set for spike from nounact of the subject?"

I am not sure off the top of my head. I do know,
however, that the activation-settings of MindForth
are all getting tightened up in recent releases.

The 22.JAN.2008 uploads were the first-ever
truly working Mind.Forth AI. First I uploaded
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html
in the morning, after two days of hard work.

In that first working model (after 13 years),
I discovered that pressing the [Enter] key
to force the AI to pause for user input,
actually introduces glitches if the AI is
in the middle of thinking a thought.
So therefore I made the "non-invasive"
Tab key cause a pause for user input,
and I wrote up the change in the User Manual.
(Tab still switches display modes.)

Over the course of the day (22jan2008),
it bothered me that here I finally had a
working AI Mind in Forth, but its performance
was so lackluster and so unconvincing, so I
wrote a mechanism to detect repetitious
thoughts and I uploaded it separately to
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html
without updating the VirtualEntity site,
because the repetition-detecting version
needs to be improved a little more.

From now on it will be so pleasant to be
coding an AI that already works, rather
than eliminating bug after bug after bug,
just to see some vexing new bug pop up.

I may try to fall a little 'Net-silent now,
instead of constantly harping about
MindForth, although I keep brainstorming
new AI Mind ideas that I would like to
tell the world about. For instance, my
"thotnum" method of detecting repetitious
thoughts engendered in me today a way
of perhaps consolidating the knowledge-base
during the Rejuvenate process -- just check
all the memories of thoughts and remove
any duplicates. In that way, the knowledge
in the KB becomes more concentrated.

Whoever looks at MindForth right now
might think it's still pretty primitive,
and it is, but it _does_ think and
it no longer spouts the gibberish
for which Mentifex AI was famous.

By the way, "The answer is 42."
That's how many years it took me
to solve AI in theory (1979) and
in software (22 January 2008),
starting in December of 1965.

Bye for now.

ATM/Mentifex
--
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html
http://mind.sourceforge.net/aisteps.html
http://onsingularity.com/user/mentifex









Back to top
 
Page 1 of 1       All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:18 pm
Science Forum Index

Powered by phpBB & ML | Disclaimer



Contact Us