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Science Forum Index » Philosophy - Meta Forum » Jesus, Myth of History or Son of God ?
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| Author |
Message |
| Acrux |
 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:38 pm |
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Guest
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My name is Lorenzo Crescini. I am a Captain of the merchant Navy now
on retirement.
When I was a secular missionary in an African leprosary, I wrote some
Flashes on the Holy Gospels which helped a lot of people by giving
them new trust and hope. You will find them in web site
www.lorenzocrescini.it/holygospels
E mail:
ricercapap@lorenzocrescini.it
Here are the first three Flashes as an example
1. There is the historical proof the myth could not invent the
Cross . If the Cross roused a "social orror" by the heathens ,it
caused a shocking religious dismay by the Jews. It is not a case that
the first christians in order to avoid that the preaching might be
jeopardised.,represented the Cross by an anchor ,a plough, a mast, a
man praying with open arms.How can we think that this way of dying was
put in the myth by the christians themselves ?
2. Should somebody tell us of having seen a dead person on the cross
resuscitated, nobody would believe him. But if the same person stating
that could also make miracles, then we would believe him. That
happened to the Apostles who got the power of making miracles in order
to be believed. Without that power, Christianity couldn't have been
born.
3. Jesus says on the Cross: "My God ,My God ,why did You abandon me ?
Such words might even shock the reader. Why should they have been
written if they weren't true,then ? |
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| RFHall |
| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:42 am |
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Guest
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:38:22 -0700, Acrux
<mailfree@lorenzocrescini.it> wrote:
Greetings Lorenzo:
Quote: My name is Lorenzo Crescini. I am a Captain of the merchant Navy now
on retirement.
When I was a secular missionary in an African leprosary, I wrote some
Flashes on the Holy Gospels which helped a lot of people by giving
them new trust and hope. You will find them in web site
www.lorenzocrescini.it/holygospels
In many ways we are similar. We are both secular missionaries.
Although I am an athesist without concern for magic or the
supernatural, I find the philosophy of Jesus to be the most evolved
and beneficial basis for religion. So I applaud your efforts.
I have looked to Jesus as niether a myth of history nor the Son of
God. Jesus, himself, said we were all sons and daughters of God when
asked. It was the expectation that the messiah would be the Son of
God that moved his followers to claim Jesus as such. Jesus called
himself the Son of Man.
Quote:
Here are the first three Flashes as an example
1. There is the historical proof the myth could not invent the
Cross . If the Cross roused a "social orror" by the heathens ,it
caused a shocking religious dismay by the Jews. It is not a case that
the first christians in order to avoid that the preaching might be
jeopardised.,represented the Cross by an anchor ,a plough, a mast, a
man praying with open arms.How can we think that this way of dying was
put in the myth by the christians themselves ?
There's no reason to think that the crucifixion was a myth. There
were certainly enough people crucified by the romans. Undoubtredly,
Jesus knew his fate, many people hated him and had planned his demise
(Mat 12:14,26:4,Lk 13:31,19:47). The reason for the death of the
"lamb" was outlined in Isaiah 53 that called for the sacrifice of the
"Lamb" (the Christ) (who) "bore the sin of many, and made intercession
for the transgressors".
Quote:
2. Should somebody tell us of having seen a dead person on the cross
resuscitated, nobody would believe him. But if the same person stating
that could also make miracles, then we would believe him. That
happened to the Apostles who got the power of making miracles in order
to be believed. Without that power, Christianity couldn't have been
born.
By forty years after the resurrection, when the first biography of
Jesus was written, a supernatural rationalization was well
established. The hearsay of resurrection was common to many sects
then as it is today. Numerous "godly men and women who died came back
to life" upon Jesus's death (Mat 27:52-53). Muhammed was resurrected.
The Muslims worship his last footstep on earth as he stepped off to
Heaven. Zoroaster (the Messiah of Persia) was resurrected. Even
today the sudden death of a family member will sometimes be eased by
post-mortem appearances.
Forty years was ample time for such expressions as: "His spirit is
still with us. Christ lives on; and, Christ is in Heaven. " to be
rectified. His resurrection may have been a conventional motif rather
than a historical account. The resurrection also has been the basis
of much debate that may have clouded the salutary aspects of Jesus's
ministry.
Quote: 3. Jesus says on the Cross: "My God ,My God ,why did You abandon me ?
Such words might even shock the reader. Why should they have been
written if they weren't true,then ?
It's part of the reality of the life of a man of his time. If we
leave the story there, having torn away the mystery and magic which
hang like shrouds over the dead body of history, I am afraid we would
miss the growing living part, the important part of the story. I have
always felt that the miracles have misdirected; have turned us away
from the true nature of the story. It is the same if we face an
audience in which many people are taking flash pictures. The flashes
seem to distract from the feeling and true picture of the people
there. But if belief in the miracles is necessary, so be it.
RFHall
http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/chpt20.html
Realistic Idealism
The Realistic Jesus.
http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/idealism.html
Realistic Idealism
Philosophy based on evidence. |
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| RFHall |
| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:59 am |
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Guest
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:38:22 -0700, Acrux
<mailfree@lorenzocrescini.it> wrote:
Greetings Lorenzo:
Quote: My name is Lorenzo Crescini. I am a Captain of the merchant Navy now
on retirement.
When I was a secular missionary in an African leprosary, I wrote some
Flashes on the Holy Gospels which helped a lot of people by giving
them new trust and hope. You will find them in web site
www.lorenzocrescini.it/holygospels
In many ways we are similar. We are both secular missionaries.
Although I am an athesist without concern for magic or the
supernatural, I find the philosophy of Jesus to be the most evolved
and beneficial basis for religion. So I applaud your efforts.
I have looked to Jesus as niether a myth of history nor the Son of
God. Jesus, himself, said we were all sons and daughters of God when
asked. It was the expectation that the messiah would be the Son of
God that moved his followers to claim Jesus as such. Jesus called
himself the Son of Man.
Quote:
Here are the first three Flashes as an example
1. There is the historical proof the myth could not invent the
Cross . If the Cross roused a "social orror" by the heathens ,it
caused a shocking religious dismay by the Jews. It is not a case that
the first christians in order to avoid that the preaching might be
jeopardised.,represented the Cross by an anchor ,a plough, a mast, a
man praying with open arms.How can we think that this way of dying was
put in the myth by the christians themselves ?
There's no reason to think that the crucifixion was a myth. There
were certainly enough people crucified by the romans. Undoubtredly,
Jesus knew his fate, many people hated him and had planned his demise
(Mat 12:14,26:4,Lk 13:31,19:47). The reason for the death of the
"lamb" was outlined in Isaiah 53 that called for the sacrifice of the
"Lamb" (the Christ) (who) "bore the sin of many, and made intercession
for the transgressors".
Quote:
2. Should somebody tell us of having seen a dead person on the cross
resuscitated, nobody would believe him. But if the same person stating
that could also make miracles, then we would believe him. That
happened to the Apostles who got the power of making miracles in order
to be believed. Without that power, Christianity couldn't have been
born.
By forty years after the resurrection, when the first biography of
Jesus was written, a supernatural rationalization was well
established. The hearsay of resurrection was common to many sects
then as it is today. Numerous "godly men and women who died came back
to life" upon Jesus's death (Mat 27:52-53). Muhammed was resurrected.
The Muslims worship his last footstep on earth as he stepped off to
Heaven. Zoroaster (the Messiah of Persia) was resurrected. Even
today the sudden death of a family member will sometimes be eased by
post-mortem appearances.
Forty years was ample time for such expressions as: "His spirit is
still with us. Christ lives on; and, Christ is in Heaven. " to be
rectified. His resurrection may have been a conventional motif rather
than a historical account. The resurrection also has been the basis
of much debate that may have clouded the salutary aspects of Jesus's
ministry.
Quote: 3. Jesus says on the Cross: "My God ,My God ,why did You abandon me ?
Such words might even shock the reader. Why should they have been
written if they weren't true,then ?
It's part of the reality of the life of a man of his time. If we
leave the story there, having torn away the mystery and magic which
hang like shrouds over the dead body of history, I am afraid we would
miss the growing living part, the important part of the story. I have
always felt that the miracles have misdirected; have turned us away
from the true nature of the story. It is the same if we face an
audience in which many people are taking flash pictures. The flashes
seem to distract from the feeling and true picture of the people
there. But if belief in the miracles is necessary, so be it.
RFHall
http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/chpt20.html
Realistic Idealism
The Realistic Jesus.
http://www.seanet.com/~realistic/idealism.html
Realistic Idealism
Philosophy based on evidence. |
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