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Science Forum Index » Energy - Hydrogen Forum » High-frequency electrolyzers
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| Williamknowsbest |
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:25 am |
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On Jun 15, 5:33 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: Williamknowsbest wrote:
At the beginning of the industrial revolution improvements were
largely wrougnt through economies of scale favoring the development of
large capital intensive companies.
YAWN.
What does this have to do with improving battery technology ?
Graham
Well, I tried to explain something and as per usual, you got lost in
the details and blame me for YOUR confusion! lol.
So, more concisely, the underlying physical processes behind a
technology determines the best way to manage its growth. The way we
managed industrial progress before the invention of the integrated
circuit is different than the way we manage change in consumer
electronics products for that reason.
So, in my response I'm carefully showing you step by step the
differences before bringing it back to the physics of batteries and
how they are different than consumer electronics products. Batteries
are not information intensive. They're energy intensive. Just like
the older technologies. So applying models of change and growth to
batteries that we apply to consumer electronic products produces
errors in judgement. |
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| Williamknowsbest |
| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:34 am |
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On Jun 15, 5:32 am, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: Williamknowsbest wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
Early NiMH AAs had a capacity of ~ 1000mAh. Which one conforms to > 'accepted figures' ?
I tend to think Honda's experience with EVs is to be trusted more than
your gut instincts and poor math skills. haha.
Answer the damn question will you ?
Graham
I have, I don't think that you have shown that you can get the same
range out of 160 lbs of NiMH batteries that it takes Honda 800 lbs of
NiMH batteries to achieve. I further don't believe your analysis is
correctly predicting today's NiMH batteries are 3x more energy dense
than Honda's actual experience.
Even so, I am open to anything you can point to that demonstrates it.
While I have no doubt about the ultimate energy density achievable
with NiMH batteries today may be quoted as higher than the figures
Honda uses, I also believe that there are consideratoins of longevity
that limit what can actually be done in an EV. That is, you don't
discharge the battery 100% - each time. You discharge it less, and
you don't charge 100% each time, you charge it less. So, that alone
will double or triple your battery weight for a practial vehicle. Of
course lacking any real world experience in actually building stuff
you don't get this - and so you foolishly think you can load a car up
with 160 lbs of batteries and get by discharging them 100% after
orvercharging them. Well, you can that ONCE. But the idea is to have
the lowest overall cost of transport - and that means you need more
batteries. Which was my point at the outset. Your EV won't work the
way you say it will. I don't care what numbers you trot out. |
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