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Science Forum Index  »  Math - Symbolic Forum  »  The point of these "challenges"?
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rjf
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:54 am
Guest
Does anyone else find these challenges to be off the point of this
newsgroup? They typically are not done by a computer algebra system
"right away" but require some human cleverness. So the challenge is
to the human and his/her cleverness.

More useful would be a description of a Grand Programme of how to
build a simplification program that does the "right thing" without
taking time that is exponential in the size of the input, But this
should be based on mathematical algorithmic principles. At least some
of the integration problems are based on a failure to simplify the
integrand.

RJF
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dimitris
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:13 am
Guest
Hello.

I don't participate a lot in the forum so I may not
know exactly "the point of this group".

Also I can't behalf of others. Speaking for myself
from Vladimir's threads and the responses of
people like Daniel Lichtblau, Peter Pein, Thomas Richard
and many more I learn many things that if there were these
challenges of Vladimir I really don't know! Also trying by myself
I extended my knowledge (both in mathematics and Mathematica
(more) and Maple (less).

As regards Grand Programme, I lack serious programming
education but as far as I know perfectess is impossible.

Integration and simplification algorithms are really hard
to be generalized. In some cases they will fail. So, it is
in the hand of the user to use his mind along with the CAS
he likes (Maple, Mathematica I would not argue about what
is better; I guess each of them has its supporters) in order
to MAKE the CAS succeed in the task.

Sincerely,

Dimitris Anagnostou


/ rjf :
Quote:
Does anyone else find these challenges to be off the point of this
newsgroup? They typically are not done by a computer algebra system
"right away" but require some human cleverness. So the challenge is
to the human and his/her cleverness.

More useful would be a description of a Grand Programme of how to
build a simplification program that does the "right thing" without
taking time that is exponential in the size of the input, But this
should be based on mathematical algorithmic principles. At least some
of the integration problems are based on a failure to simplify the
integrand.

RJF
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dimitris
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:43 am
Guest
BTW,

searching a little in the archives of this
forum do you believe threads like the link below
are within the point of this group?

http://groups.google.gr/group/sci.math.symbolic/browse_thread/thread/16935a2fc61789fa/6cbd656457b0dcbc?lnk=gst&q=An+exact+simplification+challenge+&rnum=23&hl=el#6cbd656457b0dcbc

Dimitris

/ rjf :
Quote:
Does anyone else find these challenges to be off the point of this
newsgroup? They typically are not done by a computer algebra system
"right away" but require some human cleverness. So the challenge is
to the human and his/her cleverness.

More useful would be a description of a Grand Programme of how to
build a simplification program that does the "right thing" without
taking time that is exponential in the size of the input, But this
should be based on mathematical algorithmic principles. At least some
of the integration problems are based on a failure to simplify the
integrand.

RJF
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jacob navia
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:45 pm
Guest
dimitris wrote:
Quote:
BTW,

searching a little in the archives of this
forum do you believe threads like the link below
are within the point of this group?

http://groups.google.gr/group/sci.math.symbolic/browse_thread/thread/16935a2fc61789fa/6cbd656457b0dcbc?lnk=gst&q=An+exact+simplification+challenge+&rnum=23&hl=el#6cbd656457b0dcbc

Dimitris

/ rjf :
Does anyone else find these challenges to be off the point of this
newsgroup? They typically are not done by a computer algebra system
"right away" but require some human cleverness. So the challenge is
to the human and his/her cleverness.

More useful would be a description of a Grand Programme of how to
build a simplification program that does the "right thing" without
taking time that is exponential in the size of the input, But this
should be based on mathematical algorithmic principles. At least some
of the integration problems are based on a failure to simplify the
integrand.

RJF


Ahhhh Basti.

What happened to him? Did he solve the quintic?
He was such a strange man.
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