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Science Forum Index » Math - Symbolic Forum » Selling Matlab and Mathematica addons
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:11 am |
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We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been quite
disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience
selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
From my point of view, .NET makes it just as easy to write a stand-alone
commercial application. So it that now the best route?
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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| Ivar Rosquist |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:10 am |
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:11:46 +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
Quote: We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been
quite disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has
experience selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
From my point of view, .NET makes it just as easy to write a stand-alone
commercial application. So it that now the best route?
I can't help but thinking that the major CAS have taken the "eye
candy" route, perhaps forgetting that users of such systems, on the
whole, are less awed by eye candy than your average Windows user. Since
they are a much smaller crowd anyway, it stands to reason that eye candy
add-ons for CAS are not likely to be best sellers.
Also, if you regardless persist on that route, you might consider
using non-proprietary tools that works on other platforms, besides MS
Windows - chances are that the percentage of non-Windows users of CAS is
significantly higher than its general counterpart. |
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:29 am |
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Ivar Rosquist wrote:
Quote: I can't help but thinking that the major CAS have taken the "eye
candy" route,
Mathematica's graphics have been backward for many years. I've had hardware
accelerated graphics for almost a decade and the latest Mathematica (5.2)
still cannot make any use of it.
I believe most CASs are in this situation, except for visualization add-ons.
Quote: perhaps forgetting that users of such systems, on the
whole, are less awed by eye candy than your average Windows user.
Half of the reason I used Mathematica was because it could generate good
for-print graphics from code.
Quote: Since
they are a much smaller crowd anyway, it stands to reason that eye candy
add-ons for CAS are not likely to be best sellers.
Maybe. We've published a mathematical add-on for time-frequency and
presentation software. The time-frequency package sold 40x as well but I
still think there is a market for eye-candy add-ons.
Quote: Also, if you regardless persist on that route, you might consider
using non-proprietary tools that works on other platforms, besides MS
Windows - chances are that the percentage of non-Windows users of CAS is
significantly higher than its general counterpart.
Windows accounts for over half of Mathematica sales. Also .NET makes
application programming much easier than anything I know of under Linux. I
haven't used Mac.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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| Ivar Rosquist |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:58 am |
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:29:06 +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
Quote: Mathematica's graphics have been backward for many years. I've had
hardware accelerated graphics for almost a decade and the latest
Mathematica (5.2) still cannot make any use of it.
I believe most CASs are in this situation, except for visualization
add-ons.
Personal opinion.
Quote:
perhaps forgetting that users of such systems, on the whole, are less
awed by eye candy than your average Windows user.
Half of the reason I used Mathematica was because it could generate good
for-print graphics from code.
Personal inclination.
Quote: Since
they are a much smaller crowd anyway, it stands to reason that eye
candy add-ons for CAS are not likely to be best sellers.
Maybe. We've published a mathematical add-on for time-frequency and
presentation software. The time-frequency package sold 40x as well but I
still think there is a market for eye-candy add-ons.
Personal opinion.
It would seem that you are trying to sell what you yourself like.
The fact that, by your own admission, you are not succeeding all that
well seems to imply that maybe that you are out of sync with your target
customers, or that your stuff is more expensive than it is worth: We all
like eye candy, but a reasonable price.
Quote: Also, if you regardless persist on that route, you might consider using
non-proprietary tools that works on other platforms, besides MS Windows
- chances are that the percentage of non-Windows users of CAS is
significantly higher than its general counterpart.
Windows accounts for over half of Mathematica sales. Also .NET makes
application programming much easier than anything I know of under Linux.
Well, here is your answer. If you can develop something that does
not depend on .NET and works under, say, Linux and Mac, besides MS
Windows, you might try and see whether a large chunk of the half you are
currently ignoring is more receptive than the MS Windows half.
As for the difficulty - you seem to have a Ph.D., which would
imply that you can learn better and more complicated things than the non-
Ph.D. population. |
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| Guest |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:16 am |
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On Apr 24, 5:11 am, Jon Harrop <j...@ffconsultancy.com> wrote:
Quote: We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been quite
disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience
selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
Did you do a market analysis and/or user survey before startup? |
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| rjf |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:33 am |
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On Apr 24, 5:10 am, Ivar Rosquist <IRosqu...@irq.org> wrote:
Quote: I can't help but thinking that the major CAS have taken the "eye
candy" route, perhaps forgetting that users of such systems, on the
whole, are less awed by eye candy than your average Windows user. Since
they are a much smaller crowd anyway, it stands to reason that eye candy
add-ons for CAS are not likely to be best sellers.
The initial success, and much of the popularity of Mathematica is
based largely on eye candy.
Judging from articles in the "popular" press, one would hardly know
that it is more than a program to plot curves in pretty colors. Even
if it is not what you (or I) would like to be true.
Quote:
Also, if you regardless persist on that route, you might consider
using non-proprietary tools that works on other platforms, besides MS
Windows - chances are that the percentage of non-Windows users of CAS is
significantly higher than its general counterpart.
Maybe there are more CAS linux users percentagewise than in other area
of interest, but I think it is still a small percentage.
Also many linux users are quite likely to refuse to pay for any
program. They are, after all, running linux for some reason. The
original poster was asking about "selling" something.
So my advice is quite different. Write a program which is a web
applet, or a download plugin for a browser, or a program that is a
remote application server. Preferably targeting people who are more
numerous than mathematicians. Like, say, dental hygienists. |
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| Steven Lord |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:33 pm |
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"Jon Harrop" <jon@ffconsultancy.com> wrote in message
news:462de753$0$8716$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Quote:
We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been
quite
disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience
selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
You may receive more answers about people's experience with MATLAB addons on
the MATLAB newsgroup comp.soft-sys.matlab (CSSM) than on sci.math.symbolic.
If your news server doesn't carry CSSM, you can access it via the "User
Community" button at the top of The MathWorks homepage,
http://www.mathworks.com.
I also recommend that you take a look at our Third-Party Products & Services
page. It describes the requirements and benefits of being part of our
Connections Program. That page is located here:
http://www.mathworks.com/products/connections/
--
Steve Lord
slord@mathworks.com |
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| D Herring |
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:40 pm |
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Jon Harrop wrote:
Quote: We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been quite
disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has experience
selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
Without a doubt, yes -- depending on the application.
Much of the engineering community (especially Detroit) has bought into
the Matlab pitch; Mathworks sells an interactive fortran shell, and
numerous companies sell application-specific code known as toolboxes.
Quote: From my point of view, .NET makes it just as easy to write a stand-alone
commercial application. So it that now the best route?
Why start from scratch when you could hook into the Matlab hype?
- Daniel
(Who has several years of experience with both Mat*'s.) |
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| rjf |
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:47 am |
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On Apr 24, 5:10 am, Ivar Rosquist <IRosqu...@irq.org> wrote:
Quote: On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:11:46 +0100, Jon Harrop wrote:
We commercialized a Mathematica add-on about 2 years ago and have been
quite disappointed with sales. I'm wondering if anyone here has
experience selling Matlab addons? Are they more successful?
From my point of view, .NET makes it just as easy to write a stand-alone
commercial application. So it that now the best route?
I can't help but thinking that the major CAS have taken the "eye
candy" route, perhaps forgetting that users of such systems, on the
whole, are less awed by eye candy than your average Windows user. Since
they are a much smaller crowd anyway, it stands to reason that eye candy
add-ons for CAS are not likely to be best sellers.
Also, if you regardless persist on that route, you might consider
using non-proprietary tools that works on other platforms, besides MS
Windows - chances are that the percentage of non-Windows users of CAS is
significantly higher than its general counterpart.
Here are some alternative opinions:
1. The success of Mathematica was (and is) largely dependent on eye-
candy.
2. people who use Linux are much less likely to pay anything for
commercial software.
3. application software directly usable from a web browser seems to be
more of a trend than .net.
4. If a package can run in Matlab, why would I bother using it with
Mathematica?
RJF |
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| Guest |
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:19 pm |
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Quote: Here are some alternative opinions:
1. The success of Mathematica was (and is) largely dependent on eye-
candy.
"Eye candy" is relative. When I began using 2.2 in 1993 on a Next,
the graphics were impressive for the time.
But they havent improved much in 12+ years. They are dowdy
compared to, say, a game console or a Maya animation.
Can you believe that the built-in contour plot does not accept labels?
I hope the visualization gap has been seriously addressed.
But as I said everything is relative. Compared to Macsyma
(or Vaxima) the Mathematica 2.2 documentation was impressive.
I remember asking Macsyma Inc (formerly Symbolics) for a manual
of their Sun version, which we licensed in the early 1990s. What we
got was a Lisp manual (!) If I forced a graduate class to read that
for doing assignments, I would be run out of town on a rail. |
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:30 pm |
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carlos@colorado.edu wrote:
Quote: "Eye candy" is relative. When I began using 2.2 in 1993 on a Next,
the graphics were impressive for the time.
But they havent improved much in 12+ years.
My sentiments exactly.
Quote: They are dowdy
compared to, say, a game console or a Maya animation.
Can you believe that the built-in contour plot does not accept labels?
Have you tried FrameLabel instead of AxisLabel?
Quote: I hope the visualization gap has been seriously addressed.
A baby step in the right direction would be to adopt OpenGL in Mathematica 6
but, apparently, nobody is allowed to even say if WRI are starting down
this route. Coupled with bad sales of our Mathematica-related products and
no help in marketing them, I find this very off putting.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:15 pm |
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D Herring wrote:
Quote: Why start from scratch when you could hook into the Matlab hype?
I can develop technical applications faster with .NET than with Matlab and
the market would be all Windows users rather than just Matlab users. Maybe
even wider with Mono.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:04 pm |
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Ivar Rosquist wrote:
Quote: It would seem that you are trying to sell what you yourself like.
The fact that, by your own admission, you are not succeeding all that
well seems to imply that maybe that you are out of sync with your target
customers, or that your stuff is more expensive than it is worth: We all
like eye candy, but a reasonable price.
Yes. Although I'm trying to gather data on the relative success of
Mathematica and Matlab add-ons.
I believe the comparative failure of our Mathematica-related product is
directly related to the fact that it requires Mathematica in order to run.
Google trends shows a 2x reduction for Mathematica over the past 3 years,
for example:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=mathematica
Forcing our customers to subscribe to that trend at great expense does not
seem like a good idea.
Quote: Windows accounts for over half of Mathematica sales. Also .NET makes
application programming much easier than anything I know of under Linux.
Well, here is your answer. If you can develop something that does
not depend on .NET and works under, say, Linux and Mac, besides MS
Windows, you might try and see whether a large chunk of the half you are
currently ignoring is more receptive than the MS Windows half.
Our Mathematica add-on is already cross platform.
Incidentally, if we write a Matlab toolbox will it also work with the free
Matlab clones like Scilab and Octave, opening an even wider market?
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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| Nasser Abbasi |
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:16 pm |
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"Jon Harrop" <jon@ffconsultancy.com> wrote in message
news:46315026$0$8714$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
Quote: D Herring wrote:
Why start from scratch when you could hook into the Matlab hype?
I can develop technical applications faster with .NET than with Matlab and
the market would be all Windows users rather than just Matlab users. Maybe
even wider with Mono.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet
One nice thing with Matab, which neither Maple nor Mathematica has, is that
one can develop a complete application in Matlab and with a nice user
interface Using Matlab GUIDE, and compile it to a standalone .exe, and
sell/distribute the .exe application, which can then be installed and run on
windows (or mac or linux depending) without the end user having to have
Matlab at all. (they do not even have to know or care to know that the app
was written in Matlab). The user does not need a license to run this app.
So, in a way, this is similar to a Java or .NET. But I would think that
developing 'scientific' apps would be easier in Matlab than in .NET due to
the large amount of readily available numerical/graphics functions in
Matlab.
It would be really nice to be able to run apps directly from the internet
without downloading it, but Java applets have really failed in this, they
are still slow to load, and awkward to run from the browser. So, the second
best thing is to download the .exe and run it from the desktop locally (and
with fast links these days, this is not a big problem I would think).
As for Matlab/Mathematica, I know that at school, Matlab is much more used
than Mathematica. Even in the Mathematics departments, Matlab is much more
used than Mathematica. It seems Mathematica is more used in the physics
departments than elsewhere. Even though at my school we have Mathematica
installed on some PCs, I do not think I've seen any student using it so far.
All what I hear about at school is Matlab. Mathworks must be doing something
right :)
Nasser |
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| Jon Harrop |
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:05 pm |
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Nasser Abbasi wrote:
Quote: One nice thing with Matab, which neither Maple nor Mathematica has, is
that one can develop a complete application in Matlab and with a nice user
interface Using Matlab GUIDE, and compile it to a standalone .exe, and
sell/distribute the .exe application, which can then be installed and run
on windows (or mac or linux depending) without the end user having to have
Matlab at all. (they do not even have to know or care to know that the app
was written in Matlab). The user does not need a license to run this app.
Very interesting.
Quote: So, in a way, this is similar to a Java or .NET. But I would think that
developing 'scientific' apps would be easier in Matlab than in .NET due to
the large amount of readily available numerical/graphics functions in
Matlab.
The only reason we can develop faster with .NET is because we have put a lot
of effort into learning it and building tools for it already. I am sure
plenty of people are Matlab savvy instead.
Quote: As for Matlab/Mathematica, I know that at school, Matlab is much more used
than Mathematica. Even in the Mathematics departments, Matlab is much more
used than Mathematica. It seems Mathematica is more used in the physics
departments than elsewhere. Even though at my school we have Mathematica
installed on some PCs, I do not think I've seen any student using it so
far. All what I hear about at school is Matlab. Mathworks must be doing
something right
Thank you very much for replying. It certainly sounds as though my
suspicions were correct. I'll see what I can do about converting us from
Mathematica to Matlab.
--
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy
The F#.NET Journal
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/fsharp_journal/?usenet |
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