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Science Forum Index » Physics - Research Forum » negatively charged hydrogen and superconductivity
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| verdigris |
 Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:04 pm |
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If negatively charged hydrogen molecules were fed into a high
temperature superconductor material (at a temperature higher than 21K
- the boiling point of hydrogen gas),would they conduct electric
current better than electrons,given that
they are more massive and have stabilising rotational energy,
which should both make them harder to split apart? |
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| verdigris |
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:48 am |
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On 6 Mar, 04:04, verdigris <waltercr...@aol.com> wrote:
Quote: If negatively charged hydrogen molecules were fed into a high
temperature superconductor material (at a temperature higher than 21K
- the boiling point of hydrogen gas),would they conduct electric
current better than electrons,given that
they are more massive and have stabilising rotational energy,
which should both make them harder to split apart?
Verdigris:
In a low temperature,type 1 superconductor,cooper pairs are known to
cause the superconductivity.The pairs of electrons in a cooper pair
are correlated to each other by the positive charge of a nearby atom,
so it would probably be a better question to ask:If electronically
neutral hydrogen molecules are fed into a type 1 superconductor,at a
much higher temperature than Tc ( lattice phonons will have an energy
more compatible with the hydrogen molecules which are much more
massive than electrons),and the surface layers of the superconductor
are bombarded by a pulse of x-rays,will negatively charged hydrogen
molecules form,in the surface layers,at the same time as centres of
net positive charge form on the atoms of the superconductor material?
And will high temperature superconductivity take place? |
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| Gerry Quinn |
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:58 pm |
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In article <1173183930.445737.311370@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
waltercress@aol.com says...
Quote: On 6 Mar, 04:04, verdigris <waltercr...@aol.com> wrote:
If negatively charged hydrogen molecules were fed into a high
temperature superconductor material (at a temperature higher than 21K
- the boiling point of hydrogen gas),would they conduct electric
current better than electrons,given that
they are more massive and have stabilising rotational energy,
which should both make them harder to split apart?
Verdigris:
In a low temperature,type 1 superconductor,cooper pairs are known to
cause the superconductivity.The pairs of electrons in a cooper pair
are correlated to each other by the positive charge of a nearby atom,
so it would probably be a better question to ask:If electronically
neutral hydrogen molecules are fed into a type 1 superconductor,at a
much higher temperature than Tc ( lattice phonons will have an energy
more compatible with the hydrogen molecules which are much more
massive than electrons),and the surface layers of the superconductor
are bombarded by a pulse of x-rays,will negatively charged hydrogen
molecules form,in the surface layers,at the same time as centres of
net positive charge form on the atoms of the superconductor material?
And will high temperature superconductivity take place?
In the first place negatively charged hydrogen molecules would be
sufficiently large as to be almost immobile inside a metal crystal
lattice. In the second place there seems no reason why they should
hold onto the extra electron. Even if the metal is more
electropositive than hydrogen, the extra electron would still surely be
more comfortable in the conduction band than in a hydrogen molecule?
- Gerry Quinn |
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| verdigris |
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:11 pm |
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On 6 Mar, 23:58, Gerry Quinn <ger...@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:
Quote: In the first place negatively charged hydrogen molecules would be
sufficiently large as to be almost immobile inside a metal crystal
lattice. In the second place there seems no reason why they should
hold onto the extra electron. Even if the metal is more
electropositive than hydrogen, the extra electron would still surely be
more comfortable in the conduction band than in a hydrogen molecule?
Verdigris:
At high temperatures the lattice would expand making it easier for
hydrogen to move around.Let's go back to negatively charged hydrogen
molecules fed into the lattice and make positively charged sites in
the lattice by irradiating with X rays. |
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| Gerry Quinn |
| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:29 am |
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In article <1173257898.794515.207240@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>,
waltercress@aol.com says...
Quote: On 6 Mar, 23:58, Gerry Quinn <ger...@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote:
In the first place negatively charged hydrogen molecules would be
sufficiently large as to be almost immobile inside a metal crystal
lattice. In the second place there seems no reason why they should
hold onto the extra electron. Even if the metal is more
electropositive than hydrogen, the extra electron would still surely be
more comfortable in the conduction band than in a hydrogen molecule?
At high temperatures the lattice would expand making it easier for
hydrogen to move around.
Okay, but we are talking about negatively charged Hydrogen molecules,
which are going to be on the order of 1 Angstrom or more in diameter.
No crystal lattice will expand anything like this much at
superconducting temperatures - in fact I don't think any solid could do
so without melting or vaporising!
I'm all for wild ideas, but one should apply order of magnitude
calculations, otherwise it's just a brainstorming session.
Maybe something is possible here - perhaps one could design a material
with channels for the hydrogen ions.
Quote: Let's go back to negatively charged hydrogen
molecules fed into the lattice and make positively charged sites in
the lattice by irradiating with X rays.
Hopefully there are more gentle ways to make positively charged sites.
Okay. We've got big, slow and (whatever sort of channels we make)
somewhat mobility-challenged negative hydrogen ions, that couple
electrostatically with positively charged ions in the lattice that are
free to vibrate slightly.
Now can this be a superconductor? My instincts tell me no because
these hydrogen ions just have too many different ways to interact with
the material to stay bound in Cooper pairs. Travelling in channels,
they are certainly going to be prone to collision with the walls, which
could be much more energetic that their Cooper bonding energy.
And the question of why they don't just get rid of their electron, into
a conduction band if available, or by some sort of bonding mechanism,
is unanswered.
That said, if you can answer these objections (or maybe ignore them and
turn out to be right), good luck. But you did ask what people thought,
rather than heading for the lab and trying to do the experiment...
- Gerry Quinn |
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