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Eeyore
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:29 pm
Guest
miso@sushi.com wrote:

Quote:
Eeyore wrote:
m...@sushi.com wrote:

You might want to verify that the offset voltage won't be altered as
you put extreme differential voltage on the inputs. Generally, that is
why you put the protection diodes on the dif pair.

Well.... exactly.

The b-e junction will break down (avalanche) at about 6V reverse anyway so > what
happens when you apply say 12V differential to an unprotected input ?


Breakdown is kind of mushy. [The closer you look, the sooner you think
it broke down. This is because the physics are logarithmic, and you
are looking with linear eyes.] You can measure changes in the offset
at less that breakdown. Perhaps some localized part ot the junction
gets stressed. I just don't recall how significant this is, well, as I
always put in the diodes and only designed ASICs, where the op amp
specs are often not as important as opposed to designing an op amp for
op amp's sake. Wink Of course, with good instrumentation, you can
measure all sorts of small changes that may not be indicative of a
problem, .

I'm not really sure I'd get the warm and fuzzy feeling putting a
device on the market that whacked the unprotected dif pair. I suppose
it depends on the application.

Well..... the SSM2135 that Phil Allison mentioned has back to back 9V zeners across
the inputs. First time I've seen that integrated on a chip as opposed to normal
diodes.

Graham
Joerg
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:08 pm
Guest
Eeyore wrote:

Quote:

miso@sushi.com wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

m...@sushi.com wrote:


You might want to verify that the offset voltage won't be altered as
you put extreme differential voltage on the inputs. Generally, that is
why you put the protection diodes on the dif pair.

Well.... exactly.

The b-e junction will break down (avalanche) at about 6V reverse anyway so > what

happens when you apply say 12V differential to an unprotected input ?


Breakdown is kind of mushy. [The closer you look, the sooner you think
it broke down. This is because the physics are logarithmic, and you
are looking with linear eyes.] You can measure changes in the offset
at less that breakdown. Perhaps some localized part ot the junction
gets stressed. I just don't recall how significant this is, well, as I
always put in the diodes and only designed ASICs, where the op amp
specs are often not as important as opposed to designing an op amp for
op amp's sake. Wink Of course, with good instrumentation, you can
measure all sorts of small changes that may not be indicative of a
problem, .

I'm not really sure I'd get the warm and fuzzy feeling putting a
device on the market that whacked the unprotected dif pair. I suppose
it depends on the application.


That's how comparators work where offset is often also a decisive factor
in part selection. I have never noticed a measurable offset increase
because of differential voltage application. Heck, some of the older
gear here in the lab contains such circuits and they are still within
specs after 20+ years. Most of the times I do not rely on offset specs
though but make sure it gets clamped away towards the end of the chain.

Quote:

Well..... the SSM2135 that Phil Allison mentioned has back to back 9V zeners across
the inputs. First time I've seen that integrated on a chip as opposed to normal
diodes.


That is indeed unusual. Typically you see that in MOSFETs and dual-gate
FETs for TV tuners.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Phil Allison
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:27 pm
Guest
"Eeysore Fucking Idiot "

Quote:

Well..... the SSM2135 that Phil Allison mentioned..


** Bloody hell - not again.

My name is not "colin " - you ass.




......... Phil
Werty
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:08 am
Guest
You are NOISE .


There is nothing new in analogue Op Amps and
there never will be .

The fast lane is to simply search existing ,
leading applications , and
then merely buy what they used or
compromise a bit to hit your target .

First you must duplicate that app'

Then mod circuit for your objective
----------------

Some ppl use a known fault in an
I.C. to throw you off course .
CD4___ . T.I. , long ago made
CD4007 ? . If you held both CLK and
RESET pins together , it did not act proper.
Burr Brown Res' used this in an oscillator
"722" and got burned ( Sole sourced = bad)

Thus , in your characterization of their
application of that I.C.
, you must consider this and purposely
"push" the envelope , to learn
if their are any anomolies , not mentioned
in SPECs .

I do E.E. . I make profits .
 
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