In Lice, Clues to Human Origin and Attire

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Chapstick

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:47 pm

Guest

"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:1173661726.894966.310600@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

One quibble. "Demonic Males" by Wrangham & Peterson report that one of
the diffs with the Bonobo is that there is *no* sign of estrus. No
odor, no flush. They also mention "Hoka-hoka", in which the females
engage in lesbian sex. And that unlike the other apes, in which the
males are 200-300% larger, with the Bonobo the males are only 20-30%
larger.

There is only one other primate with all these characteristics.
hominids.

But I wonder about the dating. I've read of "punctuated" evolution.
And we know that higher levels of radiation increase the mutation
rate. It'd be interesting to see if any of the nearby stars went Nova
and thereby drenched the earth with radiation, and doing so much more
on the side of the earth facing the radioactive source.

love them bonobos! I think a lot of info about ourselves can be discovered
from them... if we can manage to study them before they go extinct.
--chap

re: the puncuated equilibrium:
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PUNCTUEQ.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

re: the supernova question (people are looking....):
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060107/fob7.asp
Gauging Star Birth: Spacecraft uses gamma rays as stellar tracer
Ron Cowen
By detecting the radioactive remains of material hurled into space by dying
stars, astronomers have estimated that, on average, our galaxy churns out
seven new stars each year.

The researchers used the European Space Agency's INTEGRAL spacecraft to
record gamma-ray light, which is high-energy radiation undetectable from
Earth's surface. They collected the particular wavelength that arises from
the radioactive decay of aluminum-26. The distribution of this aluminum
isotope traces the location of dead massive stars in the Milky Way. These
stellar heavyweights forge nearly all the galaxy's aluminum, which they
expel when they die in explosions known as supernovas.

The INTEGRAL team, led by Roland Diehl of the Max Planck Institute for
Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany, confirmed that aluminum-26 is
found primarily in star-forming regions of the galaxy. In the Jan. 5 Nature,
the researchers conclude that over the past few million years, an average of
two massive stars per century have died as supernovas in the galaxy.

Using theoretical models of the number of massive stars in relation to the
total number of stars in the Milky Way, the team also calculated that seven
new stars appear each year and that their total mass is about four times
that of the sun.

That star-formation rate agrees with those derived from other methods of
estimating star birth, notes study coauthor Dieter Hartmann of Clemson
University in South Carolina.

Determining star-formation rates in the Milky Way galaxy is a tricky
business, he adds. Astronomers have previously used visible and ultraviolet
light emitted by newborn stars. However, such radiation is obscured by gas
and dust clouds that tend to concentrate in the Milky Way's spiral arms,
where most new stars form. In contrast, gamma rays easily penetrate these
clouds.

Aluminum-26's relatively long half-life of 750,000 years also aided in the
new estimate, says Hartmann. That longevity enabled INTEGRAL to record the
emissions from stars that perished during the past several million years.

Diehl and other researchers had previously constructed maps of the galaxy's
aluminum-26 by using less-sensitive instruments, such as a detector on the
now-defunct Compton Gamma Ray Observatory (SN: 1/25/92, p. 53). But in those
older maps, researchers were concerned that a significant amount of the
gamma-ray emission might be coming from the sun's neighborhood or star
formation at a few localized sources rather than from throughout the galaxy.

The spectrometer on INTEGRAL, launched in 2002, has a critical advantage
over previous detectors. It's sensitive enough to record a variety of tiny
shifts in the wavelength of gamma-ray light that arise from the rotation of
objects spread across the Milky Way.

The shift "is telling us that the aluminum-26 is almost certainly associated
with the [entire] galaxy," rather than just a few locations within it,
according to James Kurfess of the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington,
D.C. The new map therefore validates the use of aluminum-26 as a highly
precise gauge of the recent history of supernovas and star birth in the
Milky Way, he adds.

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040221/note17.asp
Finding the star that was
Ron Cowen

Sifting through archival images, astronomers have identified the star whose
explosive demise was recorded by telescopes last year. It's the third time
scientists have observed what a particular star looked like before it was
blown to smithereens and the first time that they've uncovered the origin of
the most common type of supernova. The discovery confirms the accepted
theory that type II supernovas are produced when elderly, bloated stars
known as red supergiants run out of nuclear fuel and collapse.

A team led by Stephen Smartt of the University of Cambridge in England
describes the find in the Jan. 23 Science.

The researchers began their search for archived images of the star last
June, after an amateur astronomer, using a backyard telescope, found a
supernova in the galaxy M74, about 30 million light-years from Earth. As
luck would have it, both the Hubble Space Telescope and the Gemini North
Telescope on Hawaii's Mauna Kea had imaged the original star less than a
year before the supernova find. The images reveal that the red supergiant
star was about 8 times as massive as the sun, which is near the low end of
what theory predicts for the mass of stars that can flame out in a
supernova.

Previous archive searches for images of stars that ended their lives as
supernovas have rarely met with success. That's because no star has gone
supernova in our own galaxy for several hundred years, and more-distant
stars in other galaxies weren't clearly imaged until recent years.

nickname

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:11 pm

Guest

On Mar 11, 3:07 pm, "Paul Crowley"
<slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:

Quote:

"nickname" <alas_my_lo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1173633103.638340.131070@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The axillary/pubic/beard hair (kinky, not wavy, straight, curly or
frizzy) is the second most primitive condition, brought on by
testosterone in ancient mammals after the first lanugo (downy birth
fur) stage, but has been delayed in humans until puberty ("neoteny")
due to the extraordinary long nursing-weaning-learning curve.

Total drivel.

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

Quote:

The
change from precocial to altricial offspring required this extended
delay and relates to nesting behaviour and dependence, varying effects
of aquatic influence and climate affected this.

More drivel.

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

Quote:

The 3rd stage of hair
is the typical (non-kinky) scalp, body and non-beard facial hair,
which is not testosterone-dependent (compared to kinky hair).

Yet more drivel.

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

Quote:

This is driven in some curious way by a notion
of a 'ladder of excellence' where humans are at the
pinnacle

Bizarre interpretation. Humans and gibbons have all three stages, you
apparently think there is a contest. They're just labels, no ranking
involved, the numbers could have been reversed of course, but since
lanugo occurs 1st ontologiclly it made sense to refer to it as stage
1.

-- with the admixture of a number of other

Quote:

metaphysical ideas about 'ideal states', which
sound as though they might have come from
Plato or Pliny -- except that those guys would
have had more sense.

You obviously misread my post.

Quote:

No doubt similar sets of 'stages' could be articulated
for all other aspects of human anatomy.

Paul.

3 hair stages, 3 lice types on humans. Simple biology, no metaphysics
required.

DD

nickname

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:20 pm

Guest

On Mar 11, 3:56 pm, "Marc Verhaegen" <fa204...@skynet.be> wrote:

Quote:

Before speculating any further, try checking the actual dates
published in the small print of Tabe 1 of the paper:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1741-7007-5-7.pdf
Pedicinus Procol/Papio 10.63 Ma (7.08-14.94)
Pthirus G/H 3.32 Ma (1.84-5.61)
Pediculus schaeffi/ hum. 6.39 Ma (3.94-9.96)
Pediculus & Pthirus 12.95 Ma (9.42-17.3 Cool

OWM/ape calibration 22.50 (20.13-24.87)
So they reckon they can be 95% sure that:
G & H Pthirus diverged ~ 1.84-5.61 Ma.
P & H Pediculus diverged ~ 3.94-9.96 Ma.
regards --Richard

I could open the link, thanks a lot, Richard.
Very interesting & sensible paper, I'll place it in the AAT3 files.

They say that lice usu.co-evolve with host spp. There's nothing in this
paper that contradicts this possibility. IMO it's the most likely
hypothesis, although a lot of other scenarios are possible.
I guess early great apes in the Tethys ~16 Ma lost body fur (at least
underfur). The lice split into Pth (pubis, ?axilla...) & Ped (scalp). Po
lost both (or else the Pth/Ped split postdated the Po/HPG split). G lost
the scalp louse. P lost the pubic louse. H kept both. Nothing unexpected,
except that the clocks don't run very correct, but we know that. I would
not be surprised if H hair distribution is more primitive than that of the
gr.apes.

Thanks a lot, Richard! Finally something sensible. Smile

+-everything
is
possible apparently. Some thoughts:
OWM/ape could have been considerably earlier than 22.5 Ma.
There were plenty of hominid spp ("hominid"=incl.HPG, everything after
the
hominid/pongid split ~16-14 Ma) all over Africa from 9 to 0 Ma
(Samburupith
9 Ma, Sahelanthr 7 Ma, Orrorin 6 Ma, Ardipith 5-4 Ma, lots of apiths
4-1
Ma), so if there was close contact (sex, food, nests...), louse hopping
could have occurred in all directions.
The paper says we could have got Pth. at any moment after ~5 Ma. If
H/P=4
Ma (recent estimates), HP/G could be ~5 Ma, IOW, we can't even exclude
that
we simply inherited Pth from the hominid (HPG) LCA (co-speciation HP/G
&
H/G-Pth.).
Ped.hum./sch.~4-9 Ma coincides with the different estimates for H/P, so
H &
P could well have inherited Ped. from the H/P LCA (co-speciation H/P &
H/P-Ped.).
IOW, simple co-speciations can't even excluded: G lost Ped. afterwards,
P
lost Pth., H kept both. (Pth. then seems to have evolved slower than
Ped.
Not unexpected if G looks more like the LCA than HP does. Samburupith
was
rather G-like, but with thicker enamel.)

Why did Pth evolve slower than Ped?

IOW, if H is more primitive in this respect (since H kept both lice),
if we
simply assume that the HPG-LCA had scalp hair + Ped. & pubic hair +
Pth.,
the problem is no problem anymore.
Only: why did G kept the pubic inhabitant? why P the scalp inhabitant?
In
the HPG-LCA, both lice could have lived on body hair (Pth.=pubic &
Ped.=scalp+body, or else Pth.=pubic+body & Ped.=scalp), or (more likely
IMO
in view of ape embryology) the HPG-LCA had no body hair, at least no
underfur (which would explain the Ped./Pth.split). Chimps have no
pubic
hair AFAIK, so no wonder that P lost Pth. after H/P~5-4 Ma. Did G
evolve
more "pubic"hair &/or less "scalp"hair after the HP/G split? Some
chimps
have rel.long scalp hair (wavy?), but others (esp.old females) are
bald. I
guess Pth.thrives more on curly hairs? What species of lice do orangs
have?
Pth.? & gibbons & OWMs?
The Ped./Pth.split ~9-18 Ma might indicate when great apes lost their
underfur (or got naked) & the lice specialised in scalp & pubic hair.
The
time apparently overlaps with the time when the apes crossed the
Tethys...
Smile

The axillary/pubic/beard hair (in humans kinky, not wavy, straight, curly
or frizzy) is the second most primitive condition, brought on by
testosterone in ancient mammals after the first lanugo (downy birth
fur) stage, but has been delayed in humans until puberty ("neoteny")
due to the extraordinary long nursing-weaning-learning curve. The
change from precocial to altricial offspring required this extended
delay and relates to nesting behaviour and dependence, varying effects
of aquatic influence and climate affected this. The 3rd stage of hair
is the typical (non-kinky) scalp, body and non-beard facial hair,
which is not testosterone-dependent (compared to kinky hair).

You have:
1° lanugo = (under?)fur of most mammals??
2° testosterone > ax.pub.hair? also in women
3° scalp (~Pth/Ped) < thyroid (all Hs)
?

Female chimps go bald in their 3rd stage scalp hair, male humans also
do starting at puberty.

Chimps lost their 2nd stage and that louse.

Gorillas lost their 3rd stage and that louse.

Humans kept all 3 stages and all 3 lice.

Gibbons...same? unknown to me.

Orangs ...? Probably gorilla-like.

Quote:

Balding in Hs is testosterone effect in part of males (2°?).

Testosterone grows stage 2 hair and reduces stage 3 scalp
hair.

Early mammal-primates had stage 1 & 2, then early apes developed
altricial (nesting habit) with extended nursing, delayed weaning,
associated clinging of infant (better grasping of hands and feet more suspensory but still largely above branch), longer lives, slower
reproduction, some brackish float-wading/climbing, delayed puberty so
stage 2 was delayed, and stage 3 developed as post-lanugo pelage.

Likely the change from tidal brackish to freshwater-terrestrial
triggered the loss of stage 2 in chimp but retained non-scented 3,
while gorillas lost stage 3 but retained scented stage 2.

When HP split, Homo became seashore-adapted, retaining mild form of
head hair lice (no disease).

The later infestation of body lice from gorillas occurred at the time
of inland upriver navigation/trade/boats/nets/basic clothing, this is
when inland humans began getting selected for curly and then frizzy
head hair as seen in central Africans, inland Papuans, inland
Negritos.

Body lice is more dangerous to humans, indicating a relatively
recently acquired condition.

Quote:

Gorillas generally don't go bald at their scalp, some males reduce
their stage 2 chest hair starting at puberty. Gorillas lost their 3rd
stage.
Humans haven't lost their 3 stages, but have greatly reduced them in
various degrees. Hylobatids probably retain all 3. Not sure about
orangs. DD
I forgot to mention that sexual signaling in gorillas is strongly
scent-based, associated with 2nd stage hair, while in chimps (more so
bonobos) is strongly visual-based (estrus signs in post-puberty
females) associated with 3rd stage. This indicates that Pan has left
the tidal influence for a longer time, living near freshwater upstream
areas (no submersion, no immersion, some shallow wading), while
gorillas remained tidally-effected until more recently (no submersion,
some immersion), both salt excretion.
Both humans and orangs have estrus cycles correlative to tidal cycles,
orangs are known to shallow wade (no submersion, no immersion)
indicating past association with coasts. Orangs have visual sexual
signalling, paralleling bonobos, so they have 3rd stage. I guess.
Not certain how this fits with lice yet. DD

Yes.

--Marc Verhaegenhttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htmhttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/Fil/Verhaegen_Human_Evolution.htmlhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

Paul Crowley

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:30 pm

Guest

"nickname" <alas_my_loves@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1173903061.329981.189940@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

On Mar 11, 3:07 pm, "Paul Crowley"
slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:
"nickname" <alas_my_lo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1173633103.638340.131070@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The axillary/pubic/beard hair (kinky, not wavy, straight, curly or
frizzy) is the second most primitive condition, brought on by
testosterone in ancient mammals after the first lanugo (downy birth
fur) stage, but has been delayed in humans until puberty ("neoteny")
due to the extraordinary long nursing-weaning-learning curve.

Total drivel.

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

You are putting forward the 'hypothesis'.
It is up to you to support it -- if you have
any data. You haven't, of course. In fact,
you would not even be able to start
defining your terms.

Paul.

Prionesse

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:32 pm

Guest

On Mar 9, 8:31 pm, "Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote:

Quote:

Something else that could have been driving the hairlessness is
adapting to the riverine delta in Chad 6 mya. Like the Okavango, it
was covered with a lattice work of channels and oxbow ponds that would
have been frequently crossed, or waded in to get edible tubers. But
its the hairier apes that leave the stongest scent in the water to tip
off the crocodiles that hominids are wading or swimming.

Interesting! Would the ecology of the riverine delta in Chad have
resembled the environment in which Oreopithecus (the "Swamp Ape" or
"Cookie Monster" as it's affectionately known) waded? Some ought to
undertake a comparative analysis of Oreopithecus and the Toumai skull
from a functional morphology point of view, see how their modes of
facultative bipedalism/upright posture differed or converged.

nickname

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:53 pm

Guest

On Mar 14, 2:30 pm, "Paul Crowley"
<slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:

Quote:

"nickname" <alas_my_lo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1173903061.329981.189940@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

On Mar 11, 3:07 pm, "Paul Crowley"
slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:
"nickname" <alas_my_lo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1173633103.638340.131070@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

The axillary/pubic/beard hair (kinky, not wavy, straight, curly or
frizzy) is the second most primitive condition, brought on by
testosterone in ancient mammals after the first lanugo (downy birth
fur) stage, but has been delayed in humans until puberty ("neoteny")
due to the extraordinary long nursing-weaning-learning curve.

Total drivel.

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

You are putting forward the 'hypothesis'.

No just stringing together some thoughts, trying to figure out the
cause of the lice and hair situation. I see I've made a couple
errors, will review.

Quote:

It is up to you to support it -- if you have
any data. You haven't, of course. In fact,
you would not even be able to start
defining your terms.

Paul.

Well said Paul.

DD

Day Brown

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 am

Guest

On Mar 14, 5:32 pm, "Prionesse" <circean0cir...@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 9, 8:31 pm, "Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote:

Something else that could have been driving the hairlessness is
adapting to the riverine delta in Chad 6 mya. Like the Okavango, it
was covered with a lattice work of channels and oxbow ponds that would
have been frequently crossed, or waded in to get edible tubers. But
its the hairier apes that leave the stongest scent in the water to tip
off the crocodiles that hominids are wading or swimming.

Interesting! Would the ecology of the riverine delta in Chad have
resembled the environment in which Oreopithecus (the "Swamp Ape" or
"Cookie Monster" as it's affectionately known) waded? Some ought to
undertake a comparative analysis of Oreopithecus and the Toumai skull
from a functional morphology point of view, see how their modes of
facultative bipedalism/upright posture differed or converged.

That'd be nice, but no way of knowing if the few remains that have
been found are representative.

IIRC, it was "Children of the Ice Age" by Stanley that didnt look at
what the hominids ate that drove their evolution, but what was eating
the hominids. Leopards. It was refreshing to consider how wading
around in tall grass would tend to make you keep your head up.

richard01

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:39 am

Guest

On Mar 12, 6:07 am, "Paul Crowley"
<slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:

Quote:

This is driven in some curious way by a notion
of a 'ladder of excellence' where humans are at the
pinnacle -- with the admixture of a number of other
metaphysical ideas about 'ideal states', which
sound as though they might have come from
Plato or Pliny -- except that those guys would
have had more sense.

No doubt similar sets of 'stages' could be articulated
for all other aspects of human anatomy.

Paul.

You`re being unreasonably dismissive of Nickname's ideas, Paul. It was
Plato or Pliny (or a near-contemporary of theirs) who came up with the
idea of the Ages of Stone, Bronze, and Iron, which, I understand, are
still used by thrusting, modern, progressive archaeologists, some two
thousand years later.

It was Ernst Haeckel, most certainly a more perceptive and original
evolutionist than anyone alive today, who came up with: "Ontogeny
recapitulates phylogeny", the idea that life stage changes run
parallel with evolutionary stage changes, and can predict them. He's
yet to be proved wrong.

So, before you pronounce Nickname's ideas as 'drivel', think a bit,
and at least allow him a chance to back them up.

By my calculation, he only came up with the idea last week. A week is
a short time in politics, but in this 'science' it is only a minute
milli-fraction of a couple of millenia.

regards

Richard

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