Astronaut charged with attempted kidnapping not attempted mu

Main Page | Report this Page

Science Forum Index » Space - Shuttle Forum » Astronaut charged with attempted kidnapping not attempted mu

Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next

Author

Message

Wok

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:03 pm

Guest

Astronaut charged with attempted kidnapping not attempted murder
Fri Mar 2, 2007 1:42PM EST

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - NASA astronaut Lisa Nowak, who
stunned colleagues by driving from Houston to Orlando in diapers
to confront a woman she thought was a love rival, was charged
with attempted kidnapping but not with attempted murder,
prosecutors said on Friday.

The former space shuttle crew member also was formally charged
on Friday with battery and car burglary with assault after
trying to pepper spray the woman she thought was competing with
her for the attention of another astronaut, said prosecutors in
Orlando.

Shortly after Nowak was arrested on February 6, prosecutors said
she was trying to kill U.S. Air Force Capt. Colleen Shipman, who
she believed was a rival for the attention of astronaut Bill
Oefelein.

But the attempted first-degree murder charge, which carried a
maximum sentence of life imprisonment, was dropped without
explanation and prosecutors declined to comment.

Nowak, who has three children and recently separated from her
husband, was released on bail shortly after her arrest and
allowed to return to her home in Houston.

Police said Nowak, a flight engineer who made her first trip
into space in July to the International Space Station aboard
shuttle Discovery, sped the 950 miles from Houston to Orlando
wearing diapers so she would not have to stop at a bathroom.

Pneuma Pelosi

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:15 pm

Guest

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:03:34 +0000, Wok wrote:

Quote:

This case has plea deal written all over it. How about assault with
probation and heavy psych counseling during probation?

doomella

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:33 pm

Guest

"Wok" <emil6@spamish.com> wrote in message
news:45E87587.145FCE26@spamish.com...

Quote:

Some people call her the space cowboy, some call her the gangster of love.
<laugh track>
I feel kind of sorry for her.

Jim

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:52 pm

Guest

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:03:34 GMT, Wok <emil6@spamish.com> wrote:

Quote:

Simberg) wrote:

Quote:

Me thinks that she'll end up only facing one or two (reduced) assault and
battery charges...

Assault, with pepper spray, is all she really did...

Nope. It's a pretty open/shut case of attempted murder.
Then I wrote:

Another shining example of your failure to properly interpret what is
really happening in the world around you. Spraying someone with pepper
spray is, at most, simple assault. She brought a BB gun and a knife,
neither of which was brandished or otherwise used. Could possibly go
with an added "with intent to do great bodily harm" but that's
doubtful.

Now I write further, Rand, Terrell Miller both owe me a tip of the
hat. And I get to say "I told you so".
To you Terrell, sorry sport
--

Jim in Houston
NoSpAmjgoodrun@houston.rr.comNosPAm
Nurse's creed: Fill what's empty, empty what's full,
and scratch where it itches!! RN does NOT mean Real Nerd!

Rand Simberg

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:09 pm

Guest

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:52:22 -0600, in a place far, far away, Jim
<NoSpAmjgoodrum@houston.rr.comNoSpAm> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Quote:

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:03:34 GMT, Wok <emil6@spamish.com> wrote:

Astronaut charged with attempted kidnapping not attempted murder
Fri Mar 2, 2007 1:42PM EST

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - NASA astronaut Lisa Nowak, who
stunned colleagues by driving from Houston to Orlando in diapers
to confront a woman she thought was a love rival, was charged
with attempted kidnapping but not with attempted murder,
prosecutors said on Friday.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:40:05 GMT, simberg.interglobal@org.trash (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

Me thinks that she'll end up only facing one or two (reduced) assault and
battery charges...

Assault, with pepper spray, is all she really did...

Nope. It's a pretty open/shut case of attempted murder.
Then I wrote:
Another shining example of your failure to properly interpret what is
really happening in the world around you. Spraying someone with pepper
spray is, at most, simple assault. She brought a BB gun and a knife,
neither of which was brandished or otherwise used. Could possibly go
with an added "with intent to do great bodily harm" but that's
doubtful.

Now I write further, Rand, Terrell Miller both owe me a tip of the
hat. And I get to say "I told you so".

Why? Our argument was based on the evidence available to us. There
are many reasons that the prosecution could decide to reduce the
charge, but it doesn't mean that we were wrong, given that
information.

In any event, you're wrong as well. You said, right above, it would
only be assault and battery. The charge remains attempted kidnapping.
Which of course raises the question of the purpose of such a
kidnapping.

Stevie

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:24 am

Guest

Quote:

Astronaut charged with attempted kidnapping not attempted murder
Fri Mar 2, 2007 1:42PM EST

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - NASA astronaut Lisa Nowak, who
stunned colleagues by driving from Houston to Orlando in diapers
to confront a woman she thought was a love rival, was charged
with attempted kidnapping but not with attempted murder,
prosecutors said on Friday.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 12:40:05 GMT, simberg.interglobal@org.trash (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

Me thinks that she'll end up only facing one or two (reduced) assault and
battery charges...

Assault, with pepper spray, is all she really did...

Nope. It's a pretty open/shut case of attempted murder.
Then I wrote:
Another shining example of your failure to properly interpret what is
really happening in the world around you. Spraying someone with pepper
spray is, at most, simple assault. She brought a BB gun and a knife,
neither of which was brandished or otherwise used. Could possibly go
with an added "with intent to do great bodily harm" but that's
doubtful.

Now I write further, Rand, Terrell Miller both owe me a tip of the
hat. And I get to say "I told you so".
To you Terrell, sorry sport

The charges were reduced because they would probably not be able to prove
attempted murder to an instructed jury. Any thinking person who has read
the full police report could see that she did intend to kill her rival. The
actions leading up to the parking lot assault are not those of someone
simply wanting to spray mace and talk. Her scheme seems thought-out rather
well for a crazed-psycho loon. But she choked. And had she not bungled up
the initial contact, she would have still been caught after the
relationships surfaced and she was investigated. Somewhere along her
journey, there is gas station video of her car, license plate #, and her
donning a wig and trench coat.

But make no mistake... Nowak DID intend to kill Shipman.

Rand Simberg

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:18 am

Guest

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:24:35 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Stevie"
<NoSpaM@alltel.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way
as to indicate that:

Quote:

Somewhere along her
journey, there is gas station video of her car, license plate #, and her
donning a wig and trench coat.

Actually, there probably wasn't. She likely had extra gas tanks in
the car precisely to avoid that. Unless you've heard that not to be
the case.

Stevie

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:50 pm

Guest

"Rand Simberg" <simberg.interglobal@org.trash> wrote in message
news:465f7564.1425572184@news.giganews.com...

Quote:

On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 06:24:35 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Stevie"
NoSpaM@alltel.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way
as to indicate that:

Somewhere along her
journey, there is gas station video of her car, license plate #, and her
donning a wig and trench coat.

Actually, there probably wasn't. She likely had extra gas tanks in
the car precisely to avoid that. Unless you've heard that not to be
the case.

No extra fuel tanks unless she ditched them before arriving at the airport.
She could have planned gas stops at small stations that would not have video
surveillance, but I doubt that because she did not have had a list of
scheduled fuel stops in her car. She would have made a list for the trip up
and back. She was in possession of printed emails sent between Shipman and
Oefelein, also found was a map to Shipman's home, a written (shopping?) list
of items she was carrying - latex gloves, metal mallet, knife, rubber hose,
trash bags, BB gun, etc.. So it would stand to reason that she would have
stations listed and marked if she chose them based on whether they were a
large fuel center or not. I don't think she thought that far in advance - I
think she thought the wig and coat would suffice when she went in to random
gas stations and paid in cash.

I believe she wanted to make the round-trip incognito and in the shortest
possible time to bolster her alibi that she was in Houston during the
timespan Shipman would have been killed. At the airport parking lot, she
would have forced Shipman at gunpoint to drive to where Nowak's car was
parked. She would have killed her there at that location. Strangle, stab,
bludgeon.. take your pick. She had the tools on her. Maybe rob and
sexually assault her to throw off detectives as to motive. Body doesn't get
found until at least 8 hours later. Nowak gets investigated after
relationship between her and Oefelein is discovered - maybe 1-2 days later.
Nowak seemingly has been in Houston during this whole timespan and would
have personal witnesses to attest to the fact.

No doubt she would have slipped up somewhere - left or brought back
something. DNA, fiber, whatever. She wasn't thinking clearly to begin with
or she wouldn't have attempted this. When questioned, she said she "wanted
to talk" to Shipman. Is that the best she could do under pressure? Who
brings latex gloves to a meeting of the minds? Her identity would already
be known to Shipman - why hide fingerprints? She may be an astronaut but
she's also a dumbass to think she would get away with killing a love rival.
Smile

Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:29 pm

On Mar 2, 1:03 pm, Wok <e...@spamish.com> wrote:

Quote:

Police said Nowak, a flight engineer who made her first trip
into space in July to the International Space Station aboard
shuttle Discovery, sped the 950 miles from Houston to Orlando
wearing diapers so she would not have to stop at a bathroom.

Wow. Must be a lovely driving experience smelling like that in diapers
for 950 miles.

Tale Maker

John Doe

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:24 pm

Guest

Stevie wrote:

Quote:

and back. She was in possession of printed emails sent between Shipman and
Oefelein, also found was a map to Shipman's home, a written (shopping?) list
of items she was carrying - latex gloves, metal mallet, knife, rubber hose,
trash bags, BB gun, etc..

It makes it LOOK like she had intentions to kill her prey.

But in and by themselves, those items are not illegal. In fact, you would
probably find those and perhaps more potent weapons in the trunk of someone
going out hunting for deer.

If the hunter, on his way to the hunting grounds, stops at a gas station
and has an argumnent with the red neck station owner that results in a few
fists/punches being exchanged, it doesn't make the hunter's actions
premeditated murder simply because he had tools in his trunk that would
have made it possible for him to kill the station owner.

For all we know, that Novak's true intentions were to go shoot some BB guns
at some KSC range to practice and let off steam after having had a strong
"speech" with her rival to tell her to stay away from "her" lover.

Remember OJ Simpson ? Everything pointed to him having done it. But in he
court of law, the jury wasn't 100% convinced that he had done it because
the evidence wasn't 100% conclusive.

Another possible defence is that the Novak lady had no intentions of
killing the victim, just scare her a lot so she's stay way from her lover.

Say I pull a gun to your head, threathen you but I don't shoot. Later, the
police find the gun with no bullets in it. I can say that I had no
intentions of killing you and only wanted to scare you which is why I had
not loaded any bullets in the gun. But prosecution can then claim that
there is no proof that there were no bullets in the gun at the time of the
altercation and that the the suspect could have leter disposed of the
bullets prior to police finding the gun.

About the diapers: Nowak could argue that she was just experiementing/
testing to see if she could handled the diapers for this long. Isn't her
journey in car with diapers somewhat similar in time and position to how
long she'd be in diapers in a shuttle launch ?

Steven L.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:28 pm

Guest

TaleMaker@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 2, 1:03 pm, Wok <e...@spamish.com> wrote:
Police said Nowak, a flight engineer who made her first trip
into space in July to the International Space Station aboard
shuttle Discovery, sped the 950 miles from Houston to Orlando
wearing diapers so she would not have to stop at a bathroom.

Wow. Must be a lovely driving experience smelling like that in diapers
for 950 miles.

Apparently she changed her diapers twice. The cops found two used
diapers in that plastic bag. So I guess her strategy was to cut down on
the number of pit stops along the way--she could pee in each diaper a
couple times before having to change it. She was probably drinking lots
of coffee to stay alert the whole trip, and caffeine is a known
diuretic, so this was actually well thought out on her part. She wasn't
"crazy" at all.

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Steven L.

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:30 pm

Guest

Wok wrote:

Quote:

I think the easiest solution for all concerned, NASA included, would be
to just have the Navy give her a dishonorable discharge for "conduct
unbecoming an officer" under UCMJ. Just the fact that she stalked
Shipman, her rival in a love triangle, for 900 miles and then zapped her
with the pepper spray, is sufficient to get her on "conduct unbecoming,"
without having to worry about whether her intent was kidnapping. And
Nowak does not deny that she was the one who zapped Shipman, so under
UCMJ she would plead guilty to "conduct unbecoming."

Then NASA could take that dishonorable discharge from the Navy and ask
her to resign from NASA on that basis.

Simple.

--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Rand Simberg

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:34 pm

Guest

On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:24:40 -0500, in a place far, far away, John Doe
<jdoe@doe.org> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as
to indicate that:

Quote:

Stevie wrote:
and back. She was in possession of printed emails sent between Shipman and
Oefelein, also found was a map to Shipman's home, a written (shopping?) list
of items she was carrying - latex gloves, metal mallet, knife, rubber hose,
trash bags, BB gun, etc..

It makes it LOOK like she had intentions to kill her prey.

Yes, indeedy.

Quote:

Remember OJ Simpson ? Everything pointed to him having done it. But in he
court of law, the jury wasn't 100% convinced that he had done it because
the evidence wasn't 100% conclusive.

No, it was because the jury consisted of morons.

Clark

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:53 pm

Guest

John Doe <jdoe@doe.org> wrote in
news:2a481$45e9bd79$cef8887a$17664@TEKSAVVY.COM:

[snip]

Quote:

Say I pull a gun to your head, threathen you but I don't shoot. Later,
the police find the gun with no bullets in it. I can say that I had no
intentions of killing you and only wanted to scare you which is why I
had not loaded any bullets in the gun. But prosecution can then claim
that there is no proof that there were no bullets in the gun at the time
of the altercation and that the the suspect could have leter disposed of
the bullets prior to police finding the gun.

If a gun is used in a crime it is defined as a deadly weapon and the actual

state of the gun is not a possible defense. The laws are written this way to
avoid all sorts of problems with liability, self-defense rights, and chicken-
sh*t behavior. In many states even using a toy gun will get you charged (and
convicted assuming no other problems) with using a deadly weapon. Funny thing
about these laws, the way they are written to protect the victim and not the
perp...

--
---
there should be a "sig" here

Alex

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:57 pm

Guest

I suspect an insanity plea could work. :)

Alex

Page 1 of 2 Goto page 1, 2 Next All times are GMT - 5 Hours The time now is Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:34 pm Science Forum Index