"The Real Andy" <therealandy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:mermt2t67is2patuqemm2snc9e3k5f309p@4ax.com...

Sounds like any other language. What interests me is how robust the
language is.

#define "robust" ???

I am not a big fan of dynamically types languages, I
prefer strongly typed.

Why? Types are a relic from when programming consisted of smearing bits over
hardware. If you program C#, you should be way past fretting over what internal
representation things have.

Not that Python lacks types - they just work differently.

How does it benefit me, and the business who is
paying me to develop there applications?

Python is I.M.O. very easy to use so you can do more with it in less time (i.e
finish the work in one week and then use the next two on to more important jobs
such as working out how to kill the armoured guy in FEAR using only the pistol).

In terms of language, Python is object oriented, but you do not have to use
objects. There are exceptions, you do not have to use them. In many ways
opposite the whip and bondage of Java. PERL and Python are logical opposites,
PERL have infinately many ways of doing the same task, in Python the one or two
obvious ways is normally the most effective method. (C# is most similar to
Python).

Python delivers the cross-platform portability that Java lacks: wxWidgets f.x.
(GUI library), behaves native, look native and feels native on windows or Linux
(KDE, Fluxbox, Gnome, whatever). I tend to write Python stuff on my windows XP
laptop and deploy it to Linux later with no trouble - the only pain was when
wxWidgets changed naming standard between versions, there was a skew from Linux
to Win XP and my app broke on the move.

Most often Python is used as "thin glue" like the floor-levelling goo one uses
before tiling: Making up a sane interface between disparate processes. That's
why you do not see it so much "advertised", it's hidden in the infrastructure.
Lenovo PC's ship with it for some purpose along that.

The core Python license is very generous: You can build a product with the
interpreter and your code and sell it as your product (licenses on add-on's
might vary).

Anyway: http://www.python.org/ - it's here! It installs/runs on windows (and
uninstall even works also).

I like a lot. You might have a different taste.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:11:27 +0100, David Brown
david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

snip
I offered the suggestion of Python in that spirit - look at it yourself,
and see what you think.

I am intending to have a look, as I suggested before. In fact, I am
going to buy an Mac notebook over the next couple of weeks(when I have
time), so that is when I will try it.

However, I can assure you that the chances of me using it on a
commercial basis are as good as none. This is not because I think
Python is no good, but rather the majority of work in Australia is
targeted at MS platforms.

OBTW, "Python" is named for the comedy troop, Monty Python, not the
snake. IIRC, its mascot is the foot crashing out of a cloud and stomping
someone.

In 25 words or less, how do you do GUI design? Is it code driven, or
graphical designer driven? Which is the best toolkit to use? Looking
at python.org it lookes like i need to use some library, rolled into
some design tool/ide + the python translator itself?

If there is one IDE that does the lot, I'd like to know about that.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:17:46 -0500, Chuck Harris wrote:

OBTW, "Python" is named for the comedy troop, Monty Python, not the
snake. IIRC, its mascot is the foot crashing out of a cloud and stomping
someone.

Maybe, but not its logo:
http://www.python.org/community/logos/

Although, the foot would be much cooler. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

As usual, it depends. You can write scripts that invoke widgets, or
you can use widgets as objects that call scripts.

The Real Andy wrote:
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:11:27 +0100, David Brown
david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

snip
I offered the suggestion of Python in that spirit - look at it yourself,
and see what you think.

I am intending to have a look, as I suggested before. In fact, I am
going to buy an Mac notebook over the next couple of weeks(when I have
time), so that is when I will try it.

However, I can assure you that the chances of me using it on a
commercial basis are as good as none. This is not because I think
Python is no good, but rather the majority of work in Australia is
targeted at MS platforms.

That shouldn't hold you back, python works great on *all* MS platforms...
and linux, and BSD, and solaris, and unix, and hpux, and OSX, and OS/2,
and DOS, and QNX, and... I'm sure you get the point, right?

.NET, and C# can't quite make the same claim.

If you check out *any* modern unix like box, you will find lots of the
system utilities for configuration, setting up accounts, email, etc are
done in python. Those that aren't are probably in sh, perl, or C/C++.

And since python is free for any use, on any platform, trying it out
doesn't need to wait for a Mac notebook. It'll run just fine on any old
thing.

-Chuck


OBTW, "Python" is named for the comedy troop, Monty Python, not the snake.
IIRC, its mascot is the foot crashing out of a cloud and stomping someone.

In 25 words or less, how do you do GUI design? Is it code driven, or
graphical designer driven? Which is the best toolkit to use? Looking
at python.org it lookes like i need to use some library, rolled into
some design tool/ide + the python translator itself?

If there is one IDE that does the lot, I'd like to know about that.

BTW. Can be linux,OSX or Windows. I dont have Mac yet, but have the
other 2.

For GUI design I prefer wxGlade - in spite of a bug:

"The Real Andy" <therealandy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:elfpt2p8b0knenuf3p8v5ou3a04lg4o6jo@4ax.com...

In 25 words or less, how do you do GUI design? Is it code driven, or
graphical designer driven? Which is the best toolkit to use? Looking
at python.org it lookes like i need to use some library, rolled into
some design tool/ide + the python translator itself?

For the GUI "engine" use wxPython (wxWidgets+Python interface) -
http://wxpython.org/ .

For GUI design I prefer wxGlade - in spite of a bug:
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/WxGladeFirstSteps - easily fixed manually
(maybe fixed already?). wxGlade is at http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/ .

wxGlade generates the GUI code and then one has to hook in the application code
manually (which is what I prefer to do anyway). The *excellent* part of wxGlade
is that the GUI is saved as an XML-file so it is easy to tweak something with a
search & replace in a text editor!

There is also http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ which is more "complete"
because it can generate code too and organise code in projects e.t.c.. It's
quite usable IMO ... but ... it *does* tends to crash occationally. Boa is
probably the most all-in-one IDE there is. .

I am not aware of any commercial GUI tools - there is
http://www.activestate.com/products/activepython/ for better code integration
with windows applications.


If there is one IDE that does the lot, I'd like to know about that.

Not really - Python code tends to be compact so there is probably not so much
pressure for one.

Something based on Eclipse is probably the best bet:
http://www128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-ecant/ .

I hate Eclipse myself - it reeks of the process-laden suckiness of Big Corporate
Managed IT Systems!


BTW. Can be linux,OSX or Windows. I dont have Mac yet, but have the
other 2.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:11:27 +0100, David Brown
david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

snip
I offered the suggestion of Python in that spirit - look at it yourself,
and see what you think.

I am intending to have a look, as I suggested before. In fact, I am
going to buy an Mac notebook over the next couple of weeks(when I have
time), so that is when I will try it.

However, I can assure you that the chances of me using it on a
commercial basis are as good as none. This is not because I think
Python is no good, but rather the majority of work in Australia is
targeted at MS platforms. Regardless, if I can talk someone around
because it reduces development time and increases the benefits for my
customers, then I will do so. I doubt this is the case though.

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:35:21 +0100, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.frithiof.jensen.tdcadsl.dk> Gave us:

For GUI design I prefer wxGlade - in spite of a bug:


These "developments" would be more correctly termed "user interface
forms development" since the realm in which you operate is already a
GUI.

That isn't "GUI" design, it is "forms design".

Not much different than database development. You design a form
using widgets so the user can access the underlying application via
dialogs, fields to fill in, etc.

I don't understand how it is you folks have come to call using GUI
oriented development realms "GUI design" when they did all the work
for you, and all you are doing is creating a method to access your
application. GUI utilization maybe, but you didn't "design" anything
other than a screen form using already existing modules..

MassiveProng wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:35:21 +0100, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.frithiof.jensen.tdcadsl.dk> Gave us:

For GUI design I prefer wxGlade - in spite of a bug:


These "developments" would be more correctly termed "user interface
forms development" since the realm in which you operate is already a
GUI.

That isn't "GUI" design, it is "forms design".

Not much different than database development. You design a form
using widgets so the user can access the underlying application via
dialogs, fields to fill in, etc.

I don't understand how it is you folks have come to call using GUI
oriented development realms "GUI design" when they did all the work
for you, and all you are doing is creating a method to access your
application. GUI utilization maybe, but you didn't "design" anything
other than a screen form using already existing modules..

Probably much the same way as I consider myself a C programmer even
though the libraries I use are must modules written by someone else.

These GUI's are more akin to editors like emacs, and they simply give
you an easier way of viewing linkages, and associating blocks in your
code.

-Chuck