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Diamond Jim
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:39 am
Guest
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com...
Quote:
Tankfixer wrote:
In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled
Jack Linthicum wrote:
We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit
by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large
significant pieces is hardly a direct hit.
As opposed to a "near miss"?
Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet
problem that the most advanced US ABM
systems have problems with.

Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a
transmission from the "target"

Launching both missiles from the same site and similar amounts of
fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and
inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash.

There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your
interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes.

Andrew Swallow

"Give one a speed boast........" and the orbit will change! They may never
meet.

Its not simple as changing speed, that's why they call it rocket science.
Jack Linthicum
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:59 am
Guest
Diamond Jim wrote:
Quote:
"Andrew Swallow" <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com...
Tankfixer wrote:
In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled
Jack Linthicum wrote:
We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit
by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large
significant pieces is hardly a direct hit.
As opposed to a "near miss"?
Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet
problem that the most advanced US ABM
systems have problems with.

Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a
transmission from the "target"

Launching both missiles from the same site and similar amounts of
fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and
inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash.

There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your
interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes.

Andrew Swallow

"Give one a speed boast........" and the orbit will change! They may never
meet.

Its not simple as changing speed, that's why they call it rocket science.

Yes the ability to change orbit is one of the great assets of the U.S.
recce program, it is carefully laid out in the descriptions of the
KH-11 and KH-12 improvements.

"The KH-12 can adjust its orbit to provide coverage of areas that are
of particular interest, and can maneuver to avoid anti-satellite
interceptors - powered by a large rocket engine attached to a frame
that also resembles the Hubble Space Telescope."
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/satellites-pr.cfm
Tankfixer
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:21 pm
Guest
In article <A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com>,
am.swallow@btopenworld.com mumbled
Quote:
Tankfixer wrote:
In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled
Jack Linthicum wrote:
We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit
by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large
significant pieces is hardly a direct hit.
As opposed to a "near miss"?
Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet
problem that the most advanced US ABM
systems have problems with.

Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a
transmission from the "target"

Launching both missiles from the same site and similar amounts of
fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and
inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash.

I understand the target was a out of service weather satellite.

Quote:

There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your
interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes.


I'd wonder if there arn't some "trailers" out there sitting a hundred
miles back and waiting for the "go" signal to boost and catch up.
Gernot Hassenpflug
Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:06 pm
Guest
Hehe, some funny stuff in that article. I suggest flexing of muscle or
not, one should always be on the lookout for more information about
the deeper agenda, since almost by definition government agendas are
not laid out openly. The gaffe about the national anthem is funny too:
does that reflect on how the US administration feels a real Republic
should be run? Smile
--
BOFH excuse #87:

Password is too complex to decrypt
Revision
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:11 am
Guest
Quote:
. And since China's
economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example
Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects

I wonder how this statement was arrived at. China has large numbers of
agricultural and subsistence farmers. Their kids go to the city to build
coffee pots and radios and so on. I tend to think that if the US marekt
was closed that the economic impact would be enormous. Of course, the
1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a
while.

Quote:
. But China now has something it has wanted for a very long time - a
western-style economy.

Perhaps. But the foundation it is built on is a third-world country.
The major problem is water. 90% of the rivers in China are too toxic to
touch. Wastewater treatment seems to be more difficult that letting all
of the stuff just flow into rivers. Not to mention almost unregulated
dumping of mercury, arsenic, acids, etc.

Hundreds of millions of Chinese are illiterate peasants living in crude
mud houses. The whole country is a ramshackle mess except for a few
percent of the economic elite, who put their money in Switzerland with
the hope of retiring somewhere other than China. I am unimpressed by
China on multiple levels. Local police are used as the personal
enforcers for local Pary bosses to whip any political opposition into
submission. Any sort of widespread social disruption would quickly lead
to a mass holocaust as the prevailing psychology of the population lacks
any really valid social contract, to say nothing of morality or what
civilized people regard as common decency.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Brian Gaff
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:01 am
Guest
I get the impression that someone in China is in terrible hot water over
this..:-)

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Gernot Hassenpflug" <gernot@mb3.seikyou.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:87lkjue916.fsf@fukaolx15.rish.kuins.net...
Quote:
Hehe, some funny stuff in that article. I suggest flexing of muscle or
not, one should always be on the lookout for more information about
the deeper agenda, since almost by definition government agendas are
not laid out openly. The gaffe about the national anthem is funny too:
does that reflect on how the US administration feels a real Republic
should be run? Smile
--
BOFH excuse #87:

Password is too complex to decrypt
Jack Linthicum
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:09 am
Guest
Brian Gaff wrote:
Quote:
I get the impression that someone in China is in terrible hot water over
this..:-)

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Gernot Hassenpflug" <gernot@mb3.seikyou.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:87lkjue916.fsf@fukaolx15.rish.kuins.net...
Hehe, some funny stuff in that article. I suggest flexing of muscle or
not, one should always be on the lookout for more information about
the deeper agenda, since almost by definition government agendas are
not laid out openly. The gaffe about the national anthem is funny too:
does that reflect on how the US administration feels a real Republic
should be run? Smile
--
BOFH excuse #87:

Password is too complex to decrypt

I get the impression that the recent appearance of the Chinese
President in military uniform is a possible sign that he is trying to
place himself in a way that in the event of a military push for more
resources and expansion he can be seen as leading. Much as the old
football coach line about "the trick is to appear to be leading a
parade when you are actually being run out of town".
Jack Linthicum
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:27 am
Guest
Jack Linthicum wrote:

January 23, 2007
China Confirms Missile Test to Destroy Satellite
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 4:40 a.m. ET

BEIJING (AP) -- China's Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that Beijing had
confirmed its recent missile test to some countries, including the U.S.
and Japan, but that it is against an arms race in space.

Both Washington and Tokyo expressed concern about the Jan. 11 test in
which China used a missile to shoot down one of its old weather
satellites. Both said the anti-satellite test would expand the arms
race to space.

''China has opposed the weaponization of space and any arms race,''
Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told a news conference, adding
the test was not targeted toward any country.

Before China's confirmation of the test, the U.S. said it detected the
weapon destroying an old Chinese weather satellite. Aviation Week,
which first reported the test, said the satellite was hit by a kinetic
kill vehicle launched from a ballistic missile.

Analysts said the test represented an indirect threat to U.S. defense
systems by raising the possibility that its spy satellites could be
shot down. The threat wouldn't affect the anti-missile system, which
relies only on ground-based radar.

The U.S. military has had the capability to shoot down satellites since
the 1980s. In October, President Bush signed an order asserting the
United States' right to deny adversaries access to space for hostile
purposes.
Andrew Swallow
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:22 pm
Guest
Tankfixer wrote:
Quote:
In article <A6GdnSjK-_PaDCnYnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@bt.com>,
am.swallow@btopenworld.com mumbled
Tankfixer wrote:
In article <1169295867.757957.17720@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
dynamics@vianet.on.ca mumbled
Jack Linthicum wrote:
We apparently tracked the launch, thank someone for that. A direct hit
by an MRBM warhead that splinters a 1600 pound satellite into large
significant pieces is hardly a direct hit.
As opposed to a "near miss"?
Really it's the old hitting a bullet with a bullet
problem that the most advanced US ABM
systems have problems with.
Or you put a reciever on the "test" missle and tune it to hone on a
transmission from the "target"
Launching both missiles from the same site and similar amounts of
fuel will tend to get them to orbit at the same height and
inclination. Give one a speed boost and wait for them to crash.

I understand the target was a out of service weather satellite.


I did not know that at the time. However the same technique can
be used, just several years apart.

Quote:
There is a big difference between a bullet and a satellite, your
interceptor gets another go at the satellite every 100 minutes.


I'd wonder if there arn't some "trailers" out there sitting a hundred
miles back and waiting for the "go" signal to boost and catch up.

Weather satellites consist of a camera and a powerful transmitter.
The missile may have used radar, ground radar or tracked the
transmitter. If the missile was in a lower orbit it could simply
have waited until the satellite entered its target area and then
started its rocket engine.

Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:30 pm
Guest
Revision wrote:
Quote:
. And since China's
economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example
Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects

I wonder how this statement was arrived at. China has large numbers of
agricultural and subsistence farmers. Their kids go to the city to build
coffee pots and radios and so on. I tend to think that if the US marekt
was closed that the economic impact would be enormous. Of course, the
1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a
while.


Risky. The value of the bonds is the interest the US Government pays.
The USA could copy a lot of third world governments and refuse to pay.

Quote:
. But China now has something it has wanted for a very long time - a
western-style economy.

Perhaps. But the foundation it is built on is a third-world country.
The major problem is water. 90% of the rivers in China are too toxic to
touch. Wastewater treatment seems to be more difficult that letting all
of the stuff just flow into rivers. Not to mention almost unregulated
dumping of mercury, arsenic, acids, etc.

Hundreds of millions of Chinese are illiterate peasants living in crude
mud houses. The whole country is a ramshackle mess except for a few
percent of the economic elite, who put their money in Switzerland with
the hope of retiring somewhere other than China. I am unimpressed by
China on multiple levels. Local police are used as the personal
enforcers for local Pary bosses to whip any political opposition into
submission. Any sort of widespread social disruption would quickly lead
to a mass holocaust as the prevailing psychology of the population lacks
any really valid social contract, to say nothing of morality or what
civilized people regard as common decency.

The Chinese industrial expansion is based on converting peasants into
factory workers. In about 15 years time they are going to run out of
peasants. This will cause a major dislocation. The shortage of women
will cause problems too.

Andrew Swallow
Gernot Hassenpflug
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:01 pm
Guest
"Revision" <ttsremove@nojunkr.net> writes:

Quote:
. And since China's
economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example
Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects

I wonder how this statement was arrived at. China has large numbers of
agricultural and subsistence farmers. Their kids go to the city to build
coffee pots and radios and so on. I tend to think that if the US marekt
was closed that the economic impact would be enormous. Of course, the
1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would last for a
while.

I did not mean that export is not important, it is important for the
US also. But the internal market is huge.

--
BOFH excuse #137:

User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI.
Kerryn Offord
Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:53 pm
Guest
Andrew Swallow wrote:
Quote:
Revision wrote:
. And since China's
economy is still *not* an export-reliant industry, like for example
Japan's, export restrictions will probably not have terrible effects

I wonder how this statement was arrived at. China has large numbers
of agricultural and subsistence farmers. Their kids go to the city to
build coffee pots and radios and so on. I tend to think that if the
US marekt was closed that the economic impact would be enormous. Of
course, the 1.077 trillion that China holds in US Treasury debt would
last for a while.


Risky. The value of the bonds is the interest the US Government pays.
The USA could copy a lot of third world governments and refuse to pay.
SNIP


Just refuse to repay the Chinese, Or refuse to pay interest to everyone?

I can see defaulting on the interest resulting in the US having
difficulty borrowing overseas... And interest rates going up (The dollar
would attract junk bond interest rates because of the risk of default...)

If they just refuse to pay the Chinese.. They can sell the dollars for
Euros etc.. The dollar will fall... (Supply and demand)
 
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