Root canals not working for me?? Paging Dr. Bornsfield!

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Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:50 pm

hi,
I went to a dentist after a long time and they found i needed two root
canals..I had them done (one molar on either side on the lower jaw) -
but they are constantly achy..infected and give me a lot of trouble. I
have very few days when my teeth are not aching..
Last month, out of frustration and the dentist's suggestion I got the
premolar next to the molar root canalled too - since they could not
find anything wrong with the molar..(premolar had a big filling) - but
the jaw still hurts...badly..
I am wondering what I'm doing wromg? Why are'nt root canals working for
me?
I am only 26..and Root canals are really my way of avoiding dentures
for some tome..I really want them to work ...can anybody help!! The
dentist days it looks ok on the xray,...why does it hurt so much then?
It aches all the time - its not even sensitvity...its painful. Dr.
Bornsfield I would really appreciate your opinion on this as you seem
to be helping out a lot of people on this boards.

Steven Bornfeld

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:55 pm

Guest

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

Oh boy--I have no magic answer. Root canals don't always succeed, but
the great majority of them do. If there's still pain after a month, you
should put off crowning the teeth (root canal-treated teeth almost
always need a crown afterward) until the source of the problem is found.
If the dentist is simply suggesting more root canals, at this point
it's time for a second opinion, and strongly recommend you find a good
root canal specialist (endodontist). Two molar root canals, two painful
endodontically-treated teeth--might just be really rotten luck, but I
wouldn't bet the farm.

Good luck,
Steve

Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:29 pm

Thank you very much for your reply Dr.Bornfield.
I am going to a very reputed endodontist (who is charging me a
looooot!) to get the left side looked at...I am going to take it one
side at a time because I am having a lot of refeered pain in the upper
teeth as well -some of which have fillings - so its turning into one
big mystery - so the endodontist said that toothache cannot cross the
midline...so once I have the lower left fixed - the upper left teeth
shouls not hurt..and the whole side should be pain free. Is that right?
My mom feels that I am sensitive and am just thinking too much about it
and the pain is not quitting because of that. Can that be a possibility
? Is that why root canals are not working for me? However, last month
the pain quit completely for a week (on both sides) when I took an
antibiotic for a severe cold. I have already taken antibiotics three
times last year...I have heard that its not good to take them
frequently (though they always get rid of my toothache)...any other
advise you may have for me ? I would love to keep all my teeth..why
can't the dentists seem to help me?
One more question - I drink 2 cups of tea with Equal every day...does
tea irritate my teeth and prevent them from healing..I sometimes feel
it does..though I may be imagining it as my mom says..:)

Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Quote:

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
I went to a dentist after a long time and they found i needed two root
canals..I had them done (one molar on either side on the lower jaw) -
but they are constantly achy..infected and give me a lot of trouble. I
have very few days when my teeth are not aching..
Last month, out of frustration and the dentist's suggestion I got the
premolar next to the molar root canalled too - since they could not
find anything wrong with the molar..(premolar had a big filling) - but
the jaw still hurts...badly..
I am wondering what I'm doing wromg? Why are'nt root canals working for
me?
I am only 26..and Root canals are really my way of avoiding dentures
for some tome..I really want them to work ...can anybody help!! The
dentist days it looks ok on the xray,...why does it hurt so much then?
It aches all the time - its not even sensitvity...its painful. Dr.
Bornsfield I would really appreciate your opinion on this as you seem
to be helping out a lot of people on this boards.

Oh boy--I have no magic answer. Root canals don't always succeed, but
the great majority of them do. If there's still pain after a month, you
should put off crowning the teeth (root canal-treated teeth almost
always need a crown afterward) until the source of the problem is found.
If the dentist is simply suggesting more root canals, at this point
it's time for a second opinion, and strongly recommend you find a good
root canal specialist (endodontist). Two molar root canals, two painful
endodontically-treated teeth--might just be really rotten luck, but I
wouldn't bet the farm.

Good luck,
Steve

Jan Drew

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:59 pm

Guest

<vibharathi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168910948.345482.220930@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root

ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is
because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in
the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the
body causing potential harm.
An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually
following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems.
Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as
localised problems.

http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/rcttreatment.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom2.html

http://www.wholebodymed.com/library_education_details.php?pid=42

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A
dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source
of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful;
however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic
type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the
flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation
is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many
more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you
want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are
said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to
their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at
the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable
substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out
against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the
patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Quote:

California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
The warning will read as follows:
Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
defects or other reproductive harm.
Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
approved for use all dental restorative materials.
Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
treatment.
The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
Association, the largest constituent organization of the American Dental
Association and Attorney Shawn Khorrami (Cor-ahm-mee). The agreement
requires its member dentists to warn patients about the toxic dangers of
mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
advocacy and activism in the public interest.
"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
mercury fillings placed in a woman's mouth contributed to the autism of
her child, as well as lawsuits in Maryland, California, and New York
charging the American Dental Association with misrepresenting amalgam
dental fillings as "silver." The lawsuits basically allege that such
fillings actually contain approximately 50% mercury by weight. They cause
continuous, daily exposure to mercury and, thereby pose substantial health
risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
widely used substance in dental fillings today.
The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking
Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or
reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental
amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit
was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
restorative materials in dental offices.
The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
$2,500 per day.
Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at
415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
###

Jan

Quote:

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
I went to a dentist after a long time and they found i needed two root
canals..I had them done (one molar on either side on the lower jaw) -
but they are constantly achy..infected and give me a lot of trouble. I
have very few days when my teeth are not aching..
Last month, out of frustration and the dentist's suggestion I got the
premolar next to the molar root canalled too - since they could not
find anything wrong with the molar..(premolar had a big filling) - but
the jaw still hurts...badly..
I am wondering what I'm doing wromg? Why are'nt root canals working for
me?
I am only 26..and Root canals are really my way of avoiding dentures
for some tome..I really want them to work ...can anybody help!! The
dentist days it looks ok on the xray,...why does it hurt so much then?
It aches all the time - its not even sensitvity...its painful. Dr.
Bornsfield I would really appreciate your opinion on this as you seem
to be helping out a lot of people on this boards.

Oh boy--I have no magic answer. Root canals don't always succeed, but
the great majority of them do. If there's still pain after a month, you
should put off crowning the teeth (root canal-treated teeth almost
always need a crown afterward) until the source of the problem is found.
If the dentist is simply suggesting more root canals, at this point
it's time for a second opinion, and strongly recommend you find a good
root canal specialist (endodontist). Two molar root canals, two painful
endodontically-treated teeth--might just be really rotten luck, but I
wouldn't bet the farm.

Good luck,
Steve

Steven Bornfeld

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:32 pm

Guest

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

I cannot say that. There are a variety of things that can cause facial
pain. But if you're going to a good endodontist, there is an excellent
chance he/she will know what the source of the pain is, and treat or
refer you appropriately.

Quote:

My mom feels that I am sensitive and am just thinking too much about it
and the pain is not quitting because of that. Can that be a possibility

Based on my lengthy experience (over 30 years now) I think that the
chances that this pain is due to some kind of faulty thinking is just
about zero. Much as I avoid saying not to listen to your mom--just this
once don't listen to your mom.

Quote:

? Is that why root canals are not working for me? However, last month
the pain quit completely for a week (on both sides) when I took an
antibiotic for a severe cold. I have already taken antibiotics three
times last year...I have heard that its not good to take them
frequently (though they always get rid of my toothache)...any other
advise you may have for me ? I would love to keep all my teeth..why
can't the dentists seem to help me?

Another thing that your endodontist will surely consider is whether you
may have a sinus infection that may be contributing to your pain. Make
sure the endodontist knows this part of your history--that you had a
severe cold, were given antibiotics, and the pain disappeared. Make
sure you note the antibiotics given, and anything else in your history
that may give clues to the cause of the pain.

Quote:

One more question - I drink 2 cups of tea with Equal every day...does
tea irritate my teeth and prevent them from healing..I sometimes feel
it does..though I may be imagining it as my mom says.. Smile

No--tea is good. Don't listen...darn, there I go again!!

Steve

Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:09 pm

Thanks!
Can you explain the last line ?
No--tea is good. - Is it " no tea is good" or "no, tea is good"?
Slightly confused....tea seems to make my teeth yellow...I sometimes
feel it seeps thorugh my fillings...I am just being paranoid right? I
love tea...and it would be hard to give up - but given my dental state
- I am prepared to give it up if it helps..
Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Quote:

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you very much for your reply Dr.Bornfield.
I am going to a very reputed endodontist (who is charging me a
looooot!) to get the left side looked at...I am going to take it one
side at a time because I am having a lot of refeered pain in the upper
teeth as well -some of which have fillings - so its turning into one
big mystery - so the endodontist said that toothache cannot cross the
midline...so once I have the lower left fixed - the upper left teeth
shouls not hurt..and the whole side should be pain free. Is that right?

I cannot say that. There are a variety of things that can cause facial
pain. But if you're going to a good endodontist, there is an excellent
chance he/she will know what the source of the pain is, and treat or
refer you appropriately.

My mom feels that I am sensitive and am just thinking too much about it
and the pain is not quitting because of that. Can that be a possibility

Based on my lengthy experience (over 30 years now) I think that the
chances that this pain is due to some kind of faulty thinking is just
about zero. Much as I avoid saying not to listen to your mom--just this
once don't listen to your mom.

? Is that why root canals are not working for me? However, last month
the pain quit completely for a week (on both sides) when I took an
antibiotic for a severe cold. I have already taken antibiotics three
times last year...I have heard that its not good to take them
frequently (though they always get rid of my toothache)...any other
advise you may have for me ? I would love to keep all my teeth..why
can't the dentists seem to help me?

Another thing that your endodontist will surely consider is whether you
may have a sinus infection that may be contributing to your pain. Make
sure the endodontist knows this part of your history--that you had a
severe cold, were given antibiotics, and the pain disappeared. Make
sure you note the antibiotics given, and anything else in your history
that may give clues to the cause of the pain.

One more question - I drink 2 cups of tea with Equal every day...does
tea irritate my teeth and prevent them from healing..I sometimes feel
it does..though I may be imagining it as my mom says..:)

No--tea is good. Don't listen...darn, there I go again!!

Steve

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:44 pm

Guest

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

Sorry--I was just being silly. Tea will stain your teeth of course,
but that's what toothbrush and cleanings are for. Tea is fine. Just
don't do what my grandfather did back in Poland--drink it through a
sugar cube clenched in his front teeth.

Good luck,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:22 pm

Sorry to harp on this....but do you think tea with milk and equal might
have caused my cavities in the first place? Because other than tea I
really don't have a sweet tooth...also..with root canals and crowns
an dfillings now in my mouth...do you think it will seep through and
irritate my teeth? Somehow I want to make sure I'm not harming my teeth
in anyway..I do brush and floss regularly.

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Quote:

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks!
Can you explain the last line ?
No--tea is good. - Is it " no tea is good" or "no, tea is good"?
Slightly confused....tea seems to make my teeth yellow...I sometimes
feel it seeps thorugh my fillings...I am just being paranoid right? I
love tea...and it would be hard to give up - but given my dental state
- I am prepared to give it up if it helps..

Sorry--I was just being silly. Tea will stain your teeth of course,
but that's what toothbrush and cleanings are for. Tea is fine. Just
don't do what my grandfather did back in Poland--drink it through a
sugar cube clenched in his front teeth.

Good luck,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steven Bornfeld

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:25 pm

Guest

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

Milk of course has sugar in it. But esp. diluted with tea, there isn't
enough substantivity (ie: it isn't present in the mouth long enough, in
high enough concentration) to be a significant caries risk.
Obviously your diet at least at some point was capable of supporting
decay. You have to look at the whole ball of wax. But I wouldn't worry
about the tea.

Steve
>

Dartos

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:36 am

Guest

Not that this applies to your case, because non of us has seen
the tooth or work that has been done on it.

However, there is a fair amount of 'crappy endo' out there.

Some of it is because dental schools have not always taught the
best techniques. Some of it is because dentists have not updated
the techniques they were taught 15-20 years ago. Some of it is
due to ineffective "shortcuts" to speed up or simplify the procedure
which might not lead to the best quality of treatment.

On upper molars there is usually a 4th canal that is very small
and is not easy to locate. The lower molars often have two
canals in the distal root. Failing to find, clean,
and fill *all* of the canal system usually leads to failure.
I spent 15 minutes on a case yesterday just finding an MB-2 canal
(I had to use a file size of #6 and #8 to get to the apex).
Without spending the time to find and clean this one tiny canal,
I could easily have finished the other three, charged $750, and
said that it was done.

Another aspect to be considered is that a root canal is a last
ditch effort to retain a tooth that already has sustained
*severe damage*. It isn't likely to last 30 years (though it
*may*). Without a root canal, the tooth would be extracted.
If the root canal is unsuccessful, the tooth will be extracted.
All you are going to lose is a few dollars. With a high
percentage of years of success, it's usually worth the risk.

If a dentist is not having a high degree of success, he needs
to get better or refer the tough cases.

JMO,
D

vibharathi@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

If the dentist is simply suggesting more root canals, at this point

Quote:

it's time for a second opinion, and strongly recommend you find a good
root canal specialist (endodontist). Two molar root canals, two painful
endodontically-treated teeth--might just be really rotten luck, but I
wouldn't bet the farm.

Good luck,
Steve

Dartos

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:50 am

Guest

(ie: it isn't present in the mouth long

Quote:

enough, in high enough concentration) to be a significant caries risk.

Unless it's sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, all day long.....(and
maybe a nibble, nibble to go along with it)

D

Mark & Steven Bornfeld

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:32 pm

Guest

Dartos wrote:

Quote:

(ie: it isn't present in the mouth long

enough, in high enough concentration) to be a significant caries risk.

Unless it's sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, sip, all day long.....(and
maybe a nibble, nibble to go along with it)

D

Esp. the nibble.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

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