Main Page | Report this Page
 
   
Science Forum Index  »  Math - Numerical Analysis Forum  »  Questions about boundary conditions..
Page 1 of 1    
Author Message
Jeff
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:33 pm
Guest
Hello, could I post another question...

Suppose we have a 5 point finite difference implementation of a solver for
Laplaces equation in 2D and we have a solution on a very large (tending to
infinity) rectangular domain with either Dirichlet or Von Neumann boundary
conditions.

Is it possible to solve a sub-domain of the larger domain such that the
solution on the smaller problem is the same as the larger problem? If so
what boundary conditions should be applied to the sub-domain. I've seen
reference to "absorption" boundary conditions - what would these correspond
to in this context? My inclination is to try to set the gradient normal to
the boundary to be continuous but I haven't been able to make this work
satisfactorily so far.

Also, what are the limitations on the shape of a boundary for this type of
(2D) finite difference problem - for example does it have to be strictly
convex or even rectangular? I'm trying to solve on quite irregular regions
and often get strange behaviour at certain boundary points.

Thanks for any help.

Jeff
Peter Spellucci
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:55 am
Guest
In article <ENWdnf72HKddkTXYRVnyrAA@bt.com>,
"Jeff" <Jeff_nospam_for@btconnect.com> writes:
Quote:
Hello, could I post another question...

Suppose we have a 5 point finite difference implementation of a solver for
Laplaces equation in 2D and we have a solution on a very large (tending to
infinity) rectangular domain with either Dirichlet or Von Neumann boundary
conditions.

Is it possible to solve a sub-domain of the larger domain such that the
solution on the smaller problem is the same as the larger problem? If so
what boundary conditions should be applied to the sub-domain. I've seen
reference to "absorption" boundary conditions - what would these correspond
to in this context? My inclination is to try to set the gradient normal to
the boundary to be continuous but I haven't been able to make this work
satisfactorily so far.

Also, what are the limitations on the shape of a boundary for this type of
(2D) finite difference problem - for example does it have to be strictly
convex or even rectangular? I'm trying to solve on quite irregular regions
and often get strange behaviour at certain boundary points.

Thanks for any help.

Jeff



construction depends strongly on the equation type.

there are lots of papers about this
typically connected with pecial equations (maxwell, schroedinger,
geenral hyperbolic systems, reaction diffuson..)


I add some references only



J. P. Berenger, "A perfectly matched layer for the absorption of
electromagnetic waves," J. Comp. Phys., vol.114, no.2, Oct. 1994,
pp.185-200.

J. P. Berenger, "Three-dimensional perfectly matched layer for the
absorption of electromagnetic waves," J. Comp. Phys, vol.127, no.2, Sept.
1996, pp.363-79.



Halpern, L.
Absorbing boundary conditions and optimized Schwarz waveform relaxation.
BIT 46, Suppl., S21-S34 (2006).




Hu, Fang Q.
Absorbing boundary conditions. (English)
Int. J. Comput. Fluid Dyn. 18, No. 6, 513-522 (2004).





but especially for the laplace equation I found no references.

what concerns general boundaries for the finite difference method,
there is no restriction (besides the usual one from theory: having a Lipschitz
domain) but you will need to use tricky interpolation methods especially for the
von Neumann case (for example you need to compute the intersections of the
normal to the boundary with the given rectangular gridlines, define an interpoation
process on these intersections and then express those intersections with
the grid data. In older books this is described in detail, but
finite differences on geenral domains is now superseded by the much easier to
apply finite elements.
hth
peter
Jeff
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:17 am
Guest
"Peter Spellucci" <spellucci@fb04373.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
message news:eofq3e$eee$1@fb04373.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de...
Quote:



but especially for the laplace equation I found no references.

what concerns general boundaries for the finite difference method,
there is no restriction (besides the usual one from theory: having a
Lipschitz
domain) but you will need to use tricky interpolation methods especially
for the
von Neumann case (for example you need to compute the intersections of the
normal to the boundary with the given rectangular gridlines, define an
interpoation
process on these intersections and then express those intersections with
the grid data. In older books this is described in detail, but
finite differences on geenral domains is now superseded by the much easier
to
apply finite elements.
hth


Many thanks, as ever I value your insights and references.

It may interest you to know that I have previously applied FE to this
problem with some success but found the solution to be slow and unstable.
The problem area is image processing and this seems to lend itself
especially well to a low order finite difference approach - the resultant
equations are easy to generate and modify. Plus, images can be quickly
downsized to provide a natural multi-grid approach.

Boundary conditions also seem somewhat simpler for low order FD. In terms of
neighbouring pixels there are only really a handful of different situations
to consider. I'm applying a simple iterative technique to solve the
equations and this seems to be very stable provided that the diagonal terms
are greater than or equal to the sum of the off-diagonal tems (positive
definite?). Boundary terms seem to break this condition and can quickly lead
to instability. A pragmatic approach which seems to work is to separate out
the boundary terms and cast them entirely in terms of the non-boundary
terms. The boundary terms are then re-evaluated at the end of each iteration
on the internal terms. This seems to restore stability and produces
generally acceptable results.

Thanks again
Jeff
 
Page 1 of 1       All times are GMT - 5 Hours
The time now is Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:56 am