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gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:37 pm
Guest
Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:01 pm
Guest
On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:39 pm
Guest
On Feb 8, 4:01 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:





Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm

The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts.

The air to water system above uses 400 watts for generating
water out of the air.
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:28 am
Guest
On Feb 8, 5:39 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 8, 4:01 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm

The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts.

The air to water system above uses 400 watts for generating
water out of the air.

15.5-16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1
gallon of water to hydrogen. (why do they use gallons?)
I think it means that in an hour, if one starts with 5 gallons of
water, when there is four gallons of water left, in that hour
16500 watts of energy were used at a constant rate,
meaning to disolve one gallon of water in an hour and get
hydrogen, one needs 25 or so horsepowers.

Unfortunately I did the calculations, and this hydrogen
gas can only produce about 20 horsepowers for an hour
in a hydrogen-injection system (with 50 percent engine
efficiency). So I was right that there is space.
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:33 am
Guest
On Feb 8, 9:28 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 8, 5:39 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Feb 8, 4:01 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm

The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts.

The air to water system above uses 400 watts for generating
water out of the air.

15.5-16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1
gallon of water to hydrogen. (why do they use gallons?)
I think it means that in an hour, if one starts with 5 gallons of
water, when there is four gallons of water left, in that hour
16500 watts of energy were used at a constant rate,
meaning to disolve one gallon of water in an hour and get
hydrogen, one needs 25 or so horsepowers.

Unfortunately I did the calculations, and this hydrogen
gas can only produce about 20 horsepowers for an hour
in a hydrogen-injection system (with 50 percent engine
efficiency). So I was right that there is space.

The explosive energy of hydrogen gas is stronger than
the electric processes.
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:38 am
Guest
On Feb 8, 9:33 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 8, 9:28 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Feb 8, 5:39 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:01 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm

The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts.

The air to water system above uses 400 watts for generating
water out of the air.

15.5-16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1
gallon of water to hydrogen. (why do they use gallons?)
I think it means that in an hour, if one starts with 5 gallons of
water, when there is four gallons of water left, in that hour
16500 watts of energy were used at a constant rate,
meaning to disolve one gallon of water in an hour and get
hydrogen, one needs 25 or so horsepowers.

Unfortunately I did the calculations, and this hydrogen
gas can only produce about 20 horsepowers for an hour
in a hydrogen-injection system (with 50 percent engine
efficiency). So I was right that there is space.

The explosive energy of hydrogen gas is stronger than
the electric processes.

Because the electric processes are battery stuff,
and the exploding hydrogen gas is a different stuff.

Though both create motion as energy, one is like
a battery charge, the other like gas exploding and
running a combustion engine from a different kind
of energy, like an atom bomb cannot be compared
with a different kind of energy. It has a different energy.
A rod of plutonium can run all the energy needs of
a military submarine for 4 years. It is different,
burning hydrogen gas or using hydrogen as a battery
that is set to work when mixing with oxygen in the
air is different. It is not the same thing, and I see things.
gb6724@yahoo.com
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:54 am
Guest
On Feb 8, 9:38 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 8, 9:33 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:





On Feb 8, 9:28 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 5:39 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 4:01 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Feb 8, 3:37 pm, "gb6...@yahoo.com" <gb6...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Air to water system, 24 liters per day with little
electricity. (1 liter per hour at 30% air humidity).

http://www.airtoh2o.com.au/design.asp

For this model, aa gas tank needs to be filled up
with water, generally a full gas tank (60 liters of gas)
runs a car for a week, so something like this can
slowly fill the tank, and try to keep it filled with water.

An open mind helps.

Now the second thing a car needs to do, is using
a high-energy hydrogen combustion engine, the
car needs to extract hydrogen from the water at
an electric (electrolysis) rate which provides sufficient
hydrogen gas (not liquid) to the engine.

Why am I convinced that the hydrogen combustion
engine (hp) is stronger in terms of energy than the energy
needed to extract hydrogen from water?

Ordinary experience of modern technologies, a
combustion engine is three times more powerful
than an electric engine based on ordinary experience.
The energy needed in producing hydrogen in a fuel
cell battery re-produces 60 percent of the energy.
Storing hydrogen for electric fuel cell (as battery
technology) uses a 5-times larger gas tank than
babababababababababa... your mother's car's
oil tank.

Because the explosive power of hydrogen running
in a combustion engine cannot be compared to
the electric or chemical processes used in hydrogen
fuel-cell technologies, the problem to global warming is
solved as hydrogen can be used with existing car
engines.

Switching to free energy hydrogen taken from the
air needs simple and cheap devices and existing
architectures.

It is your duty to fascist me away forever and vote
for Bush.

Full project, with your respect toward your love to Bush:

http://www.geocities.com/gmbajszar/free_energy.htm

The electrical equivalent of one horsepower is 746 watts.

The air to water system above uses 400 watts for generating
water out of the air.

15.5-16.5 Kwatt-hours of energy are needed to convert 1
gallon of water to hydrogen. (why do they use gallons?)
I think it means that in an hour, if one starts with 5 gallons of
water, when there is four gallons of water left, in that hour
16500 watts of energy were used at a constant rate,
meaning to disolve one gallon of water in an hour and get
hydrogen, one needs 25 or so horsepowers.

Unfortunately I did the calculations, and this hydrogen
gas can only produce about 20 horsepowers for an hour
in a hydrogen-injection system (with 50 percent engine
efficiency). So I was right that there is space.

The explosive energy of hydrogen gas is stronger than
the electric processes.

Because the electric processes are battery stuff,
and the exploding hydrogen gas is a different stuff.

Though both create motion as energy, one is like
a battery charge, the other like gas exploding and
running a combustion engine from a different kind
of energy, like an atom bomb cannot be compared
with a different kind of energy. It has a different energy.
A rod of plutonium can run all the energy needs of
a military submarine for 4 years. It is different,
burning hydrogen gas or using hydrogen as a battery
that is set to work when mixing with oxygen in the
air is different. It is not the same thing, and I see things.

Calculations are found at
http://www.hydropowercar.com/forum_viewtopic.php?6.46

Hello all,

The way I figure it, you might be able to electrolyze enough hydrogen
from water (1 gallon) to power a 10HP motor for 2 hours
--- if you had 11 batteries as well.

Below my signature, I d
eveloped several "rules" using some basic prinicples of chemistry. But
I just use rule(4) and (5) to show you what I'm talking about.

Given:
-------------------------
rule(4) : 2670 amps/hr/gal of H20 at 2V.
(note: the amps to electrolyze 1 gal of water for 2 hours is:
2hrs*1gal*2670 = 5340amps
I doublechecked this, below, after my signature
(see 'double check) using a different set of forumlas )
Rule(5) : 15800 Watt-Hr from H2/gal of H2O (note: watts produced from
the Hydrogen)
1 Watt = 1 Volt*1amp
--------------------------

Let the time be 2 hours,
Let the voltage be the breakdown voltage of ~2V
Let there be 1 gal of H2O

2V * 2hrs * 1 gal * 2670 amps/hr/gal of H20
= 10680 Watts of H20 needed for electrolysis
= 5340amps at 2Volts

1 gal/2hours * 15800 Watt-Hr from H2/gal of H2O
= 7900 Watts produced from the Hydogen being combusted
= 7900 Watts * 1Hp/746Watts = 10.6HP

assuming the Engine is only 50% efficient, then only about 4000 Watts
are produced.

Hence, we need 10680-4000=6680 more watts for electrolysis. Again, if
we use the 2V for electrolysis to breakdown the water, so we need:

6680Watts/2V * 1V*1Amp/Watt = 3340 amps (from Batteries)

You might get 3340amps * 1 Battery/300amp = 11 Batteries.

What do you all think?

Toby

=========================
Double Check
=========================

===============================================================
Taken from an article - current required for the electrolysis of water
in vapor form
===============================================================
Water is electroyzed into gaseous oxygen and hydrogen by the
application of a voltage in excess of the thermodynamic

decomposition voltage (2v). The mass
of water elecctrolyzed is directly related to the electrolysis current
by Faraday's law.
Mh20 = ([I*t]/96500)*(Wh20/z) <--equation 7
Where
Mh2o = mass of water, grams
I=electrolysis current, amperes
Wh2o = gram-molecular weight of water
z=valance
t=time,seconds
==============================================================

Solving equation 7 for 'I' yields:
Mh20 = ([I*t]/96500)*(Wh20/z)
96500* Mh20 = [I*t]*(Wh20/z)
96500* Mh20/(Wh20/z) = [I*t]
I = 96500* Mh20/[(Wh20/z)*t]

Quote:
From Chemistry, we know this:
----------------------------

z = valance of water = 2
Wh2o = THe gram-molecular weight of water = 18 grams
1000 grams of water = 1 liter
1 liter of water = 0.264 gal of water
1 gram of H20/0.0022 lb
8 lb of H20/gal of H2O
----------------------------

Since we electrolysize 1 gal over 2 hours (2*3600 = 7200 seconds) of
water:
1 gal of water * 1 gram of H20/0.0022 lb * 8 lb of H20/gal of H2O =
3636 grams of H2O


Plugging these numbers into the equation for 'I':
I = 96500* 3636/[(18/2)*7200]
I = 5414 amps

THis is pretty close to the number I got above: 5340amps


==============================
APPENDIXES
==============================


http://www.pitt.edu/AFShome/l/e/lenk/public/html/0120/quizzes/12q7w9.html
------------------------
How many liters H2 at STP could be collected by electrolysis of water
at 25 amps for
2.00 hrs? 1 mole H2(g) at STP is 22.4 liter.

2. 2.00 hr * 3.6x10^3sec/hr * 25 coulomb/sec * 0.5molH2/9.65x10^4
coulomb * 22.4L/mole = 20.9 L
------------------------

25 amps/2hr/20.9 liters H2 = 0.6amps/hr/liter of H2 ---> rule(1)

==================================
rule(1) : 0.6amps/hr/liter of H2
===================================

Given:
-----------------------
1 mole of H2/2 grams of H2
1 mole of H2O/18 grams of H2O
1 mole of H2/1 mole H2O
------------------------

1 mole of H2/1 mole H2O * 1 mole of H2O/18 grams of H2O * 1 gram of
H20/0.0022 lb * 8 lb of H20/gal of H2O
= 200 mole of H2/gal of H2O

=====================================
rule(2) : 200 mole of H2/gal of H2O
=====================================

Let's convert the 200 moles of H2 into liters.

200 moles of H2/gal of H2O * 2 grams of H2/mole of H2 * 1 liter of H2/
~0.0899 grams of H2
= 4450 liters of H2/gal of H2O

========================================
rule(3) : 4450 liters of H2/gal of H2O
========================================

combining rule 1 and 3:

4450 liters of H2/gal of H2O * 0.6 amps/hr/liter of H2 = 2670 amps/hr/
gal of H20

==================================
rule(4) : 2670 amps/hr/gal of H20
==================================

Given:
---------------------------
79 Watt-Hr/Mole of H (Note: the amount of energy IN 1 mole of H)
rule(2) : 200 moles of H2/gal of H20
1 Horsepower/746 Watts
---------------------------

79 Watt-Hr/Mole of H * 1Mole of H/1 mole of H2 * 200 moles of H2/gal
of H20 1 Horsepower/746 Watts
= 15800 Watt-Hr from H2/gal of H2O

===================
as a doublecheck
===================

Given:
----------------------
Don Lancaster and George Brown both claim ther are 3.54 Watt-hrs/liter
of H2
rule(3) : 4450 liters of H2/gal of H2O
----------------------

15800 Watt-Hr from H2/gal of H2O * 1 gal of H2O/4450 liters of H2 =
3.55 Watt-hr/liter of H2

==========================================
Rule(5) : 15800 Watt-Hr from H2/gal of H2O
==========================================
 
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