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Science Forum Index » Research Forum » CNT or BASALT (whom needs a CNT tether if you've already got
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| Brad Guth |
 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:26 pm |
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Obviously basalt fibers alone are not going to cut it for any ESE,
though maybe there's hope yet, as in utilizing a sufficient taper
should more than make the prospect of using basalt fibers at least
worth a consideration of a composite tether of perhaps 10% or even as
little as 1% CNT.
Because I'm honestly researching and willing to share in those items
of interest, and of ideas based upon implementing certain aspects that
could be beneficial; here's more of what I've recently learned about
BASALT of all things, in part because I simply wanted to know how much
basalt rock weighed.
basalt density: a dense mafic rock (Fe and Mg rich silicate, density
2.8g/cm3)
I also, in spite of the opposition, learned that there's a great many
complex elements involved with basalt, though I wasn't the least bit
prepared to learn of what's been produced out of basalt.
Basalt based composites can replace steel, of alloys and of all known
reinforced plastics (1 kg of basalt reinforcement equals 9.6 kg of
steel).
Because the bulk of our planet rock and thereby most likely of that
similar to lunar rock is basalt, especially noted as offering a
reflective corresponding index, since as our moon offers such a dark
illumination index of roughly 10%, thus besides whatever space
gathered debris or volcanic like soot and/or of sufficiently dark
fallout from impacts and/or lava, raw surface basalt seems a rather
most likely lunar candidate. So, I was just researching around to
learn of how much typical basalt mass there was in relationship to the
supposed lunar mass of 3.35 g/cm3 and, lo and behold, I discovered
quite a great deal more than I'd ever needed to know about basalt.
Such as, basalt rock as we generally know of it is roughly 2.8 g/cm3,
thus there must be somewhat more substances to our moon than merely
basalt, though of this basalt being lighter in mass certainly would
help account for it being the bulk/majority of what's covering the
lunar surface, even though I've failed to identify upon any of Jay
Windley's auto-clumping characteristics nor of its nonreactive
aspects, at least it's reflective index is somewhat close enough as to
account for the typical 10% of solar illumination being reflected off
the moon.
Here are a just a couple of those extremely interesting basalt related
pages:
http://basalt-alf.narod.ru/#_BASALT_STRAND
http://www.albarrie.com/Process%20Engineering/pro-basalt.html
Basalt Continuous Fiber Mechanical Properties
Tensile strength MPa 4840 (4.84 GPa)
Elastic modulus GPa 89
Elongation at break % 3.15
I had been wondering; what was there specifically for a LSE (lunar
space elevator) tether and, since those of supposedly superior SE
(space elevator) qualifications have been too dumbfounded to bother,
or more than likely just plain too dumbfounded period, I was rather
surprised to learn that basalt fibers even existed, as not only
possible but sort of "been there done that" as of years if not decades
ago. As compared to those spendy CNT fibers that may not even become
usably nor affordably into existence for decades, whereas continuous
basalt fibers are not all that difficult to come by, nor of
fabricating into all sorts of things. Basalt molecular properties also
seem rather robust, not cellular itsy bitsy and thus as radiation
frail as those CNT fibers.
Fortunately, the basalt fiber GPa of 4.84 is a rather good omen, as
well as the stability at tension being 92% @200°C and of 82% @400°C,
thus solar IR imposing as much as 1500 w/m2 is certainly another plus
for basalt.
Being that I'm thinking along the lines that 3 GPa is more than what's
necessary for a LSE tether, even 82% of 4.84 is still 3.97 GPa, though
the thermal stress should't ever exceed the 200°C, thereby 92% of 4.84
= 4.45 GPa.
Sorry if this basalt fiber information upsets the Starlight Express
ESE plans of draining every ounce of Earthly resources. I just thought
it's interesting of what one village idiot can actually learn so much,
especially if you're not snookered or part of an assemblage into
another one of those NASA/ESE Borgs.
However, if you'd care to contribute something of specific properties,
of methods and/or of alternatives, including of those being ESE
worthy, as anything that's ESE worthy is per chance at least 36 times
more than what's necessary for accomplishing a LSE.
Due to all this orchestrated and obviously targeted email trashing
that my discoveries and subsequent research has attracted, if you'd
like to safely convey something outside of this post, rather than your
failing to get through to either of my regular email addresses that
may have been recently plugged with bogus and infected files, you may
goto this following public link ("gv-bradguth-email") and post
whatever, or simply call: 1-253-8576061 or fax: 1-253-8575318
No surprise that the following Google email forum
"gv-bradguth-email-01" as been blocked, so try out the next sequence
of -02, -03 and so on, or simply create a message of your own using
the phrase "gv-bradguth-email", then I'll find you.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=gv-bradguth-email-01&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=5d28ff28.0309220058.6cbb3553%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / Discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Other LSE UPDATES:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-lse-gpa.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-elevator.htm |
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| Ian Stirling |
| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:40 pm |
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In sci.space.policy Brad Guth <ieis-brad@juno.com> wrote:
Quote: Obviously basalt fibers alone are not going to cut it for any ESE,
though maybe there's hope yet, as in utilizing a sufficient taper
should more than make the prospect of using basalt fibers at least
worth a consideration of a composite tether of perhaps 10% or even as
little as 1% CNT.
At least attempt to do the numbers, you innumerate ineducatable idiot.
<snip>
Quote: basalt density: a dense mafic rock (Fe and Mg rich silicate, density
2.8g/cm3)
Most sources I can find say 3-3.3
<snip>
Quote: Basalt Continuous Fiber Mechanical Properties
Tensile strength MPa 4840 (4.84 GPa)
Elastic modulus GPa 89
Elongation at break % 3.15
Blows rancid donkey spooge.
The figure of merit is tensile strength/density.
Basalt 4.84/3 = 1.61
Kevlar 4.1/1.76 = 2.32
Spectra 1000 3.27/.97 = 3.37
Spectra 1000 is over twice as good.
And it's way over the knee of the very sharp curve, where the mass/payload
is terrible.
Going from Spectra 1000 to basalt would I suspect increase the mass of a
tether by 5-6 orders of magnitude.
You need to get at least 10 times better than spectra before the curve
starts to get reasonable in terms of payload/mass.
--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"An enemy will usually have three courses open to him. Of these he will
select the fourth." -- Helmuth von Moltke |
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| Ian Stirling |
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:26 am |
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In sci.space.policy Brad Guth <ieis-brad@juno.com> wrote:
Quote: Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<blfvlt$j87$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>...
In sci.space.policy Brad Guth <ieis-brad@juno.com> wrote:
Obviously basalt fibers alone are not going to cut it for any ESE,
though maybe there's hope yet, as in utilizing a sufficient taper
should more than make the prospect of using basalt fibers at least
worth a consideration of a composite tether of perhaps 10% or even as
little as 1% CNT.
snip
basalt density: a dense mafic rock (Fe and Mg rich silicate, density
2.8g/cm3)
Most sources I can find say 3-3.3
snip
Thanks so much Ian, for your valuable input. As I mentioned, I'll give
all the credit wherever it's due. Such as your expertise on blowing
Please do not mention my name on your website.
Quote: "rancid donkey spooge" is certainly a highly sought after tether
substance and, I'm certain that myself and others can see that your
knowledge is perhaps second to none. Unfortunately, I'm not qualified
to specifically judge whatever you've stipulated as to tether GPa,
though I'd tend to believe in your expertise unless others have
something other to qualify or disqualify upon such matters.
With regard to your basalt density: "Most sources I can find say
3-3.3"
Basalt is so horribly bad compared to spectra that it's not worth
looking at.
Even if you can get a thousand tons from the moon for the cost of launching
a kilo of spectra, the spectra wins.
--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
If you've been pounding nails with your forehead for years, it may feel strange
the first time somebody hands you a hammer.
But that doesn't mean that you should strap the hammer to a headband just to
give your skull that old familiar jolt. -- Wayne Throop, during the `TCL Wars' |
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| Brad Guth |
| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:45 pm |
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Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<blfvlt$j87$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>...
Quote: In sci.space.policy Brad Guth <ieis-brad@juno.com> wrote:
Obviously basalt fibers alone are not going to cut it for any ESE,
though maybe there's hope yet, as in utilizing a sufficient taper
should more than make the prospect of using basalt fibers at least
worth a consideration of a composite tether of perhaps 10% or even as
little as 1% CNT.
At least attempt to do the numbers, you innumerate ineducatable idiot.
snip
basalt density: a dense mafic rock (Fe and Mg rich silicate, density
2.8g/cm3)
Most sources I can find say 3-3.3
snip
Basalt Continuous Fiber Mechanical Properties
Tensile strength MPa 4840 (4.84 GPa)
Elastic modulus GPa 89
Elongation at break % 3.15
Blows rancid donkey spooge.
The figure of merit is tensile strength/density.
Basalt 4.84/3 = 1.61
Kevlar 4.1/1.76 = 2.32
Spectra 1000 3.27/.97 = 3.37
Spectra 1000 is over twice as good.
And it's way over the knee of the very sharp curve, where the mass/payload
is terrible.
Going from Spectra 1000 to basalt would I suspect increase the mass of a
tether by 5-6 orders of magnitude.
You need to get at least 10 times better than spectra before the curve
starts to get reasonable in terms of payload/mass.
Thanks so much Ian, for your valuable input. As I mentioned, I'll give
all the credit wherever it's due. Such as your expertise on blowing
"rancid donkey spooge" is certainly a highly sought after tether
substance and, I'm certain that myself and others can see that your
knowledge is perhaps second to none. Unfortunately, I'm not qualified
to specifically judge whatever you've stipulated as to tether GPa,
though I'd tend to believe in your expertise unless others have
something other to qualify or disqualify upon such matters.
With regard to your basalt density: "Most sources I can find say
3-3.3"
This is certainly a good thing better off than the 2.8 g/cm3, as for
being that much closer to the average density of the moon. Though I
was just quoting from what other I'd seen in print, offered by folks
that only work with basalt every day, so what do they know? Whereas
obviously your resources on basalt is vastly superior, of which I've
got no problem with.
I'll indeed do some further research, especially upon that invaluable
"rancid donkey spooge" and, I'll introduce whatever I can into the
next update on tether GPa (with or without the "rancid donkey spooge"
factor) suitable for the LSE.
Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / the discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Besides way too many other topics, here's other ongoing LSE UPDATES:
LSE Lobby: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-lse-lobby.htm
LSE Flywheels: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm
PRO/CON of ESE/LSE: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-ese-lse.htm
Basalt tether GPa update: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-lse-gpa.htm
What stinking insurance?
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-ese-invincible.htm
Your basic lunar space elevator:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm
This is for the ESE huggers cult:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm
Another LSE delivery effort:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-elevator.htm |
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