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| Science Forum Index » Archaeology Forum » More excavations to be undertaken at the Newport Tower site. |
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Message |
| Eric Stevens |
 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:33 pm |
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Guest
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http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won’t know until we dig."
Eric Stevens |
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| Peter Jason |
| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:33 pm |
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Guest
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"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
[quote:caef7d2806]
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
[/quote:caef7d2806]
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars? |
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| George |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:56 am |
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Guest
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Peter Jason wrote:
[quote:4490b8df6a]"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars?
[/quote:4490b8df6a]
Doug shut this subject down some years ago
In fact I'd imagine that the article is still on his website |
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| Matt Giwer |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:33 am |
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Guest
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Eric Stevens wrote:
[quote:f004f3294c]http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won’t know until we dig."
[/quote:f004f3294c]
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti? Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required depth of a
foundation.
--
Test question: Israel's war on Lebanon lasted 34 days. From the beginning
Israel said 33. In the middle of September 2006, Israel has the length down
to 30 days. How long will it take to get down to six days?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3711
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Blame Israel http://www.ussliberty.org a10 |
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| Eric Stevens |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:47 am |
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On 1 Oct 2006 20:56:47 -0700, "George" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:
[quote:75041d1907]
Peter Jason wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars?
Doug shut this subject down some years ago
In fact I'd imagine that the article is still on his website
[/quote:75041d1907]
Thank you George. If everyone was as easily satisfied as you there
would be no need of archaeological explanations.
Have you actually looked at the website I gave you and seen the plots
of the ground-radar scans? No? I thought not.
Doug's explanation is that the Newport Tower was built as a mill by
Governor Benedict Arnold. I have never thought that explanation will
withstand close examination and I have given my reasons in the past.
Eric Stevens |
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| celia |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:57 am |
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Guest
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Matt Giwer wrote:
[quote:c1b84d6f37]Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti? Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly[/quote:c1b84d6f37]
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
Celia |
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| Matt Giwer |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:26 am |
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celia wrote:
[quote:160d314e34]Matt Giwer wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti? Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
[/quote:160d314e34]
It has been so long I have forgotten details of alternate explanations. I do
not remember the photo but I do remember thinking there was nothing remarkable
about it.
--
Man: I do not accept what I do not see with my own eyes.
God: I made you to see what is contrary to your eyes.
Man: I made myself to see as I wish so I am as powerful as you.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3692
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5 |
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| Alan Crozier |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:51 am |
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Guest
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"celia" <c_a_blay@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159768668.188799.30780@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[quote:1c418ade5a]
Matt Giwer wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an
eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their
whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been
more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but
it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti?
Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left
to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required
depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
[/quote:1c418ade5a]
Yes, the Chesterton tower is mentioned at Doug Weller's site:
http://www.ramtops.co.uk/newport.html. Note the statement "it is hard to
believe that there is no connection". Congratulations on finding that
connection, Celia!
Alan |
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| Eric Stevens |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:08 am |
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Guest
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On 1 Oct 2006 22:57:48 -0700, "celia" <c_a_blay@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote:5b946a50a7]
Matt Giwer wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti? Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
Yep.[/quote:5b946a50a7]
That is hypothesis which was leapt to some considerable time ago and
has been passed on from hand to mouth with no better foundation other
than it might have been.
The basis of the story is that the early settlement had a mill -
alomost certainly a post-mill which is the conventional quick and easy
type which every one built. See
http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=post+mill&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images
for examples of a simple post on four feet with a mill which revolved
around it. The original mill blew down so in an emergency it is argued
that the struggling colony built - well - harrumph
http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=%22newport+tower%22+%2Bmill&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images
Is that really an appropriate response in an emergency?
Eric Stevens |
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| Eric Stevens |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:10 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 06:51:23 GMT, "Alan Crozier"
<name1.name2@telia.com> wrote:
[quote:b2116c762d]"celia" <c_a_blay@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159768668.188799.30780@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Matt Giwer wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an
eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their
whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been
more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but
it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti?
Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left
to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required
depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
Yes, the Chesterton tower is mentioned at Doug Weller's site:
http://www.ramtops.co.uk/newport.html. Note the statement "it is hard to
believe that there is no connection". Congratulations on finding that
connection, Celia!
For your next trick, why don't you try validating that line of[/quote:b2116c762d]
argument? :-)
Eric Stevens |
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| Matt Giwer |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:34 am |
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Guest
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celia wrote:
[quote:e079dc8c5e]Matt Giwer wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years, an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland? The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque, known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
I have read about this thing for decades. Granted there have been more than a
few ridiculous or at least ridiculously stated claims about it but it does not
make sense why the older work found nothing definitive. Graffiti? Unless it was
built and immediately abandoned more than one thing had to be left to be found
not to mention the detritous of construction given the required depth of a
foundation.
-- If the Newport Tower was in England where such
eccentric structures are two a penny it would hardly
get a second thought.
Here's the Chesterton Windmill
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/A3FCE02D1DF18E88802570BB00396A8F
Benedict Arnold's father was born nearby.
Perhaps he spent his childhood there.
Bit too much of a coincidence that the Newport Tower,
said to be his windmill and built by him in his later
home looks so similar.
Bet all this has been said before.
[/quote:e079dc8c5e]
Some more thinking and if I remember correctly the foundation stones below the
frost line up to where they rise above the ground have to have flat sides.
Without that lots of water gets in, freezes and does the same damage as having
no foundation below the frost line. The expanding ice would crush filler stones
which would take less space after the ice melted.
So someone way back when should have looked for the work marks leveling the
stones and found a way to identify the period of manufacture. I can seen not
dissembling the tower but the lowest foundation stones should be wider with the
workmarks quite visible.
--
A certain thing in this world is if you say Jews are inconsequential then
Jews will start making claims of Jewish power they would call antisemitic if
a non-Jew had said them.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3713
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
environmentalism http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a9 |
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| Doug Weller |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:14 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:47:21 +1300, in sci.archaeology, Eric Stevens
wrote:
[quote:566dc72f96]On 1 Oct 2006 20:56:47 -0700, "George" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars?
Doug shut this subject down some years ago
In fact I'd imagine that the article is still on his website
Thank you George. If everyone was as easily satisfied as you there
would be no need of archaeological explanations.
Have you actually looked at the website I gave you and seen the plots
of the ground-radar scans? No? I thought not.
Doug's explanation is that the Newport Tower was built as a mill by
Governor Benedict Arnold. I have never thought that explanation will
withstand close examination and I have given my reasons in the past.
Eric, that is not my explanation. I still think the resemblance to the[/quote:566dc72f96]
Newport Tower is remarkable, but I don't think I've ever said Benedict
Arnold built it.
Doug
--
Doug Weller --
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Amun - co-owner/co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amun/ |
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| Eric Stevens |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:05 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:14:32 GMT, Doug Weller
<dweller@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote:
[quote:74f0b5caa8]On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:47:21 +1300, in sci.archaeology, Eric Stevens
wrote:
On 1 Oct 2006 20:56:47 -0700, "George" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars?
Doug shut this subject down some years ago
In fact I'd imagine that the article is still on his website
Thank you George. If everyone was as easily satisfied as you there
would be no need of archaeological explanations.
Have you actually looked at the website I gave you and seen the plots
of the ground-radar scans? No? I thought not.
Doug's explanation is that the Newport Tower was built as a mill by
Governor Benedict Arnold. I have never thought that explanation will
withstand close examination and I have given my reasons in the past.
Eric, that is not my explanation. I still think the resemblance to the
Newport Tower is remarkable, but I don't think I've ever said Benedict
Arnold built it.
[/quote:74f0b5caa8]
I apologise. My recollection is that that is what you have claimed in
the past. I have gone back into the quagmires of past threads and
although I have returned alive, I would not recommend that anyone try
to follow me.
I thought the usual argument was that (1) Bendict Arnold wrote about
'my stone-built mill' and that (2) he grew up in an area where he
might have seen the Chesteron windmill and that (3) the Newport Tower
was converted to a windmill (to grind gun powder) at some stage in
it's career and (4) no other 'stone-built mill' has been identified on
the Arnold property. Therefore the Newport Tower is a mill built by
Arnold and inspired by the Chesteron mill.
I suppose there is an alternative argument that the mill was
originally built by somebody else and Arnold later came to own it. But
then, as far as I know, Arnold is the only person who has been named
as having a possible connection with the Chesteron windmill to serve
as inspiration for the Newport Tower. Without such a link, the
possible relevance of the Chesteron mill is much less.
The situation is confused by gaps in the early records and the
knowledge that the original (or an early) Newport mill had to be be
replaced in a hurry when it was blown down in a storm. Some people
claim that the Newport Tower was the emergency mill but I can't think
of a less likely structure to build in an emergency.
It could be that the Newport Tower was built as a permanent structure
to replace a temporary or emergency mill but if that is the case it is
surprising that there is no record of such an ambitious undertaking so
early in the life of the fledgling colony.
Eric Stevens |
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| Inger E |
| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:33 pm |
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Guest
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"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4tt2i2pr3517fha9kbi85brghhh4lbp3v5@4ax.com...
[quote:cc63c61ca0]On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:14:32 GMT, Doug Weller
dweller@ramtops.removethis.co.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:47:21 +1300, in sci.archaeology, Eric Stevens
wrote:
On 1 Oct 2006 20:56:47 -0700, "George" <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote
in message
news:18r0i256kv4gekpm39jalaqusinq98cgrq@4ax.com...
http://www.chronognostic.org/projects.html
"For the first time in nearly 60 years,
an archaeological
excavation will take place in Touro
Park, perhaps finally to
answer the question: Who built the
Newport Tower? The Norse,
perhaps, with a connection to Greenland?
The Scottish, with an eye
to colonization? The Chinese, or the
Portuguese, both needing
rescue? Or perhaps even the Basque,
known for their whale-spotting
towers on the coasts of France and
Spain?
We won't know until we dig."
Eric Stevens
Maybe the local City Hall seeking tourist
dollars?
Doug shut this subject down some years ago
In fact I'd imagine that the article is still on his website
Thank you George. If everyone was as easily satisfied as you there
would be no need of archaeological explanations.
Have you actually looked at the website I gave you and seen the plots
of the ground-radar scans? No? I thought not.
Doug's explanation is that the Newport Tower was built as a mill by
Governor Benedict Arnold. I have never thought that explanation will
withstand close examination and I have given my reasons in the past.
Eric, that is not my explanation. I still think the resemblance to the
Newport Tower is remarkable, but I don't think I've ever said Benedict
Arnold built it.
I apologise. My recollection is that that is what you have claimed in
the past. I have gone back into the quagmires of past threads and
although I have returned alive, I would not recommend that anyone try
to follow me.
I thought the usual argument was that (1) Bendict Arnold wrote about
'my stone-built mill' and that (2) he grew up in an area where he
might have seen the Chesteron windmill and that (3) the Newport Tower
was converted to a windmill (to grind gun powder) at some stage in
it's career and (4) no other 'stone-built mill' has been identified on
the Arnold property. Therefore the Newport Tower is a mill built by
Arnold and inspired by the Chesteron mill.
I suppose there is an alternative argument that the mill was
originally built by somebody else and Arnold later came to own it. But
then, as far as I know, Arnold is the only person who has been named
as having a possible connection with the Chesteron windmill to serve
as inspiration for the Newport Tower. Without such a link, the
possible relevance of the Chesteron mill is much less.
The situation is confused by gaps in the early records and the
knowledge that the original (or an early) Newport mill had to be be
replaced in a hurry when it was blown down in a storm. Some people
claim that the Newport Tower was the emergency mill but I can't think
of a less likely structure to build in an emergency.
It could be that the Newport Tower was built as a permanent structure
to replace a temporary or emergency mill but if that is the case it is
surprising that there is no record of such an ambitious undertaking so
early in the life of the fledgling colony.
Eric Stevens[/quote:cc63c61ca0] |
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