"wmbjk" <wmbjk@citlink.net> wrote in message

Here's a sample of turn-key solar-powered homes for sale
http://www.66greenwood.com/gw_main.asp They start at $100k.

Wayne, it appears that the one and only $100k home+lot out of about 487 lots
in this "off-grid" community has a power line running through the back yard.
Who wants an off-grid home with a powerline in the back yard?

I imagine that after a summer in the desert 30 miles down a dirt road from
Kingman AZ, one might be tempted to install air-conditioning, in which case,
the powerline might not be such a bad idea after all.

Wayne's place *is* 30 miles down a dirt road from Kingman AZ.
(Well, perhaps no longer -- they keep paving over more and more of
the dirt.)

"wmbjk" <wmbjk@citlink.net> wrote in message

Here's a sample of turn-key solar-powered homes for sale
http://www.66greenwood.com/gw_main.asp They start at $100k.

Wayne, it appears that the one and only $100k home+lot out of about
487 lots in this "off-grid" community has a power line running
through the back yard. Who wants an off-grid home with a powerline in
the back yard?

I imagine that after a summer in the desert 30 miles down a dirt road
from Kingman AZ, one might be tempted to install air-conditioning, in
which case, the powerline might not be such a bad idea after all.

No bunnies at this mansion, but maybe a Jackelope or two.

Don Libby wrote:

from Kingman AZ, one might be tempted to install air-conditioning, in
which case, the powerline might not be such a bad idea after all.

No bunnies at this mansion, but maybe a Jackelope or two.


Would you believe kitties like this one?
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/kitty.JPG

Two responses from you so far, but in neither do I see any defense of
your original assertion that PV is "a plaything of the rich".

Instead
you seem to be whining that the example homes at the link I provided
would be more than $100k, too hot, too far from town, and might have a
power line in view.

I toured the model (no power line in view, $130k including many
upgrades). It's a nice area, and the turnkey package aspect will appeal
to many.

I expect most of the purchasers will be retired or just
starting out.

Hardly the rich folk you imagine. I am pleased that you
seem to have looked over the offering. I better warn you though that the
nearest Starbucks is about 40 minutes away. <gasp

On the bright side,
once you've made the trip for your latte, there's plenty of culture. Wal
Mart to name just one. ;-)

Wayne

Original assertion was that mass production and mass marketing has yet
to dethrone PV as a plaything of the rich.

There's a large hydro project nearby, no?

$30k in upgrades? Upgrades like air-co? Electric appliances instead
of propane?

Three hours to the nearest in one direction, two hours in the other.

Kingman is the nearest place to gas up.

Isn't your place in Nevada, not AZ?

Just starting out, early in the morning, to get to work on time at the
nearest entry-level labor market two hours away, after a quick fill-up

Or Lowes? Maybe the entry-level or supplemental retirement income
labor market isn't so far away after all. But how many greeters does

No, the rich folk I imagine have their own airplanes and 'dozers.

Don Libby wrote:


Original assertion was that mass production and mass marketing has yet
to dethrone PV as a plaything of the rich.

Nonsense. Get your butt into a PV retail outlet. See if the shoppers in
the store are rich. Then ask yourself how many of them can afford a
computer and the time to yak on Usenet. It's a safe bet that you're
wealthier than at least half of them. If you can't understand that, then
you're out of touch, and need to get out more.

Regardless, the PV
part is obviously affordable, since it's included in the price of an
affordable home. Don't like the package they offer? You can do it on
your own for less.

Just starting out, early in the morning, to get to work on time at the
nearest entry-level labor market two hours away, after a quick fill-up
in Kingman? Get your kicks, on Route 66!

You're just being silly. Kingman is a rapidly growing city. Here's a
link to the Chamber of Commerce http://www.kingmanchamber.org/

No, the rich folk I imagine have their own airplanes and 'dozers.

Most people who own dozers and planes live on-grid. Would you say that
makes on-grid living only for the rich?

You have a fundamental problem
with your assertion that PV is the plaything of the rich..... you're
wrong.

You might tell us what it would take to get you into a
solar-powered home. I bet 90% of any difficulty is that you'd insist on
having your cake and eating it too.

Maybe I should get out more. I admit I've never been to Lowes or Home
Depot.

There may be some people who somehow manage to scratch out a
living in the desert far, far from powerlines, for whom the purchase
of a luxury good like PV would doubtless greatly improve their
wellbeing at a lower cost than stringing a powerline to their humble
homestead.

There may also be some people who don't know or care that
it costs more to install a luxury good like PV rather than pay their
electric utility bills. Poor -- at math: maybe this is why the poor
get poorer?

I'm more inclined to agree with the latter statement. Flaw in the
former is that a clever developer can take a loss on one or two or
three deeply discounted homes in a 400-lot development and still make
a handy profit over-all. I think I can get a PV-compatible lot for a
lot less (about half, in WY). Slap a couple panels on a trailer and
bingo, I'm living like a King, man!

Must admit, it's been 10 years since I last gassed-up in Kingman.
Back in those days, solar PV was merely a plaything of the rich.

Consider home economics' axiomatic "homo economicus" - the rational
actor. Given a choice between paying $x per year for power from the
grid, and $10x for equivalent power from PV, I imagine that there is
a positive correlation between personal wealth and the tendency to
choose the more costly electric power source.

Well, calculators and landscape accent lights aside, the last
partially PV-powered home I visited was a vacation home on private
land on a private lake. Not in AZ, either: MI, and upper-MI at that!
Maybe I'm over-generalizing from the case of the PV-powered getaway
cottage on one hand, and the 'dozer drivin' pilot on the other.

Don Libby wrote:


Maybe I should get out more. I admit I've never been to Lowes or Home
Depot.

...> want to move up, a well proven method is use your evenings, weekends,
and vacation time to fix up your place using skills developed along the
way. Then sell the place at a profit and start over.

There may be some people who somehow manage to scratch out a
living in the desert far, far from powerlines, for whom the purchase
of a luxury good like PV would doubtless greatly improve their
wellbeing at a lower cost than stringing a powerline to their humble
homestead.

Hmmm... doesn't "scratching out a living" conflict with your view that
PV is a plaything of the rich?

There may also be some people who don't know or care that
it costs more to install a luxury good like PV rather than pay their
electric utility bills. Poor -- at math: maybe this is why the poor
get poorer?

More conflicts it would seem. Would you say these people are rich or
poor?

As I said, you need to get out more. And read more carefully. If people
can *cut* their cost of living during retirement for example, by moving
to a solar powered home, it's clear that solar *can* be affordable.

Likewise with the plane - read up here
http://eaa.org/education/homebuilt_faq.html You'll get an idea of what
it takes in money and sweat equity to build your own aircraft. They
didn't mention that the more the plane, usually the less the car, eating
out, vacations, etc. Fortunately you have me to tell you that stuff.

Some of us
working people rent property from you real-estate tycoons.

Never-the-less, for plastic wrap to put on my windows, I go to
Menard's - a locally owned version of the discount hardware megamart.
http://www.menards.com/index.jsp

Right, I'm granting your point that some folks less wealthy than I do
indeed see fit to purchase and use PV.

Again, your point is granted: some PV users are willing to pay more
than necessary for electricity, for idealistic or sentimental reasons
I guess. Economists regard this as irrational behavior. Not ALL PV
users are rich, true, but for the most part, setting aside the
smattering of contrary examples, PV is for rich folk (because it
costs more per kWh than powerline juice, if both are available at a
given locale).

For people wealthy enough to own their own homes and who do not have
to work for a living.

Where does a kWh of solar PV cost LESS than a
kWh of powerline juice if both are available at a given locale? Not
in Chicago, and not at the Caterpillar plant in Peoria.

PV costs less far, far away from powerlines, where there really are
not too many affordable apartments for factory workers and 'lectric
train commuters to rent.

But do watch out for the home power
hobbyists' windmill towers, which have been known to reach up in
dense fog and knock EAA Fly-In hobbyists right out of the sky.