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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » biogas production questions (practical application type)
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| drunk on oil.com |
 Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:45 am |
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Guest
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Bio gas questions,
The following questions I sent to a bio gas plant in Sweden but got no
reply. Can anyone out there help me with them. I lecture in Sweden on
energy issues.
1-It takes energy to run a Bio Gas (BG) plant. How much energy goes
into a plant to make BG and how much comes out as fuel?
2-How much fertiliser does this BG plant make in one month of
operation. How many farms could it supply. Is it possible that BG
fertilzer could at some point supply all the fertilizer needs? Is the
cost competitive with fossil fertilizers?
3-Do chemicals from the waste products used to create the bio gas get
burned up or transformed into safer material in the process of making
bio gas? If not is it possible to filter them out somehow?
4-How many BG plants would it take to replace the electrical and fuel
needs of a large population such as the USA? What would be the cost?
5-Is there any advantage the bio gas concept has over the hydrogen
fuel concept? (And vice versa)
6-Is there enough farmable land to support bio gas use on a large
scale (like throughout Europe)?
7-You mentioned using farm land that is payed by EU not to produce
crops to grow bio fuel crops. please explian.
8- What about the auto industry. If BG cars were bought in mass what
would the price drop be for the average car? Would the prices then
become competitive to standard vehicles?
9-What would be the cost of running a society such as the USA on
Biogas ie pipeline construction distribution points (gas stations)?
10-The hydrogen economy is what is being pushed by big business as the
next best replacement to oil. Would it be cheaper than the "hydrogen
economy" that now governments are rushing into. (Estimated cost for
the USA alone is 600 billion dollars.) Does biogas compete with
Hydrogen in
1 levels of pollution
2 cost of production
3 energy efficiency at the plant.
11-How much money would be put back into the community in terms of
products bought to create the gas such as manure, farm waste,
slaughter house products, etc.How much would it save in terms of waste
processing?
12-What is done with the slaughter house waste otherwise if it is not
sold to the bio gas plant?
13-How much government help has been given to BG production at your
plant, in Sweden, in Europe, in the world?
14-If the taxes upon gasoline at the pump would be applied to BG what
would be the cost of BG be then?
15- If the 251 billion dollars world wide yearly given to the oil
industry were instead given to the BG industry how many BG plants
could be made? Would that be enough to develop the BG economy just as
the Hydrogen economy?
16-What would be the economic results of turning to bio gas on a large
scale? In other words how many jobs would it create? Would it be safe
to say the jobs lost in oil drilling and production could be replaced
by BG production?
17-What is the expected production of the life of a BG plant? How much
does it cost to maintain, ie how long does a BG plant last, at what
point is a large overhaul needed and at what cost?
18-How does a BG plant compare to Nuclear. In other words how many BG
plants used strictly for gas to create electricity would it take to
replace one nuclear power plant?
19-How many jobs would be created to replace one nuclear power plant
with BG?
20-How much money goes back to a farmer who grows crops for BG yearly?
21-How much money goes to the slaughter house annually who supply raw
material for BG production?
22-Are there any other areas that save money such as vehicle
maintanence of cars and busses that run on BG as opposed to fossil
fuel?
23-What is the yearly maintenance cost of a nuclear power plant. What
is the cost of mining and transporting the nuclear raw material and
storing the waste nuclear`?
24-In a worst case scenario what is the worst accident that could
happen at a BG plant? How does it's danger compare to natural gas
storage and transportation?
25-What would it mean to the BG industry if the 3 billion SEK that is
planned for each nuclear power plant in Sweden were instead given to
BG. Could it supplement these power plants enough to supply the energy
needs of Sweden? Can nuclear power plants then be slowed to half
production giving them longer life?
26-Does a BG plant produce any harmful pollution?
27-What is the government reaction to BG plants? Has any political
party openly endorsed BG production? Has any politician aggressivley
put forth legislation to promote BG development?
28-What are the current tax structures of BG?
29-What could be the best tax structure to ensure BG development?
30-Are their any countries where BG is in full production? If so what
is their cost and experience?
Thanks
Daniel |
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| Chris Torek |
| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:59 pm |
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Guest
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In article <c2203c43.0312122245.2913350b@posting.google.com>
drunk on oil.com <daniel@drunkonoil.com> writes:
Quote: Bio gas questions,
The following questions I sent to a bio gas plant in Sweden but got no
reply. Can anyone out there help me with them. I lecture in Sweden on
energy issues.
1-It takes energy to run a Bio Gas (BG) plant. How much energy goes
into a plant to make BG and how much comes out as fuel?
[and many more questions in similar vein]
The actual numbers depend on the plant and process. Most (all?)
biogas production systems share some basic characteristics, taking
animal wastes (including human) and/or plant wastes (wood chips,
slash, etc) and "cooking" it to optimize bacterial growth. The
bacteria produce methane, but the process also emits water vapor
and contaminants (mainly hydrogen sulfide, and perhaps silanes,
though I believe the latter are more of a problem in landfill gas),
and of course CO2. The cooking process, however, can be the
"natural" one that happens on its own, or it can be assisted. This
changes the energy input as well as the reaction speed.
The value of the resulting fertilizer varies, depending on (among
other things) how "clean" it is and whether conventional fertilizer
is cheap or expensive in the area.
You might also look at, e.g.,
<http://www.rurdev.usa.gov/rbs/pub/dec01/biogas.html> and particularly
<http://www.scc.state.id.us/PDF/Carbon%20Sequestration/IDAHO%20SEQUESTRATION%20REPORT.pdf>
(see section 4.6.1). Here is an excerpt:
... Thus far, however, anaerobic digesters have only proven
cost-effective in the U.S. for large livestock operations.
Some cost analysis of these systems has been done which provides
some costs and benefit expectation with digester systems.
Assuming facility livestock populations ranging from 250 to
1,000 head, installation costs range from about $50 to $260
thousand (USEPA 1993). Operation costs range from about $1,000
to $8,500. Annual benefits, however, range from $6,200 to
$42,000, with payback ranging from 6 to 21 years.
As you can see, in general the economics are somewhat iffy, but
are improving these days (the above numbers are clearly quite old).
In particular, Capstone turbines can handle H2S-contaminated biogas
with far less pre-treatment than is needed for conventional internal
combustion engine systems. The resulting electric energy can be
used to offset the farm's electricity usage, so that the electricity
has "retail value" (sometimes US$.15/kWh or more) instead of
"wholesale value" (generally around US$.03/kWh).
--
In-Real-Life: Chris Torek, Wind River Systems
Salt Lake City, UT, USA (40°39.22'N, 111°50.29'W) +1 801 277 2603
email: forget about it http://web.torek.net/torek/index.html
Reading email is like searching for food in the garbage, thanks to spammers. |
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| drunk on oil.com |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:03 am |
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Guest
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daniel@drunkonoil.com (drunk on oil.com) wrote in message news:<c2203c43.0312122245.2913350b@posting.google.com>...
Quote: Bio gas questions,
The following questions I sent to a bio gas plant in Sweden but got no
reply. Can anyone out there help me with them. I lecture in Sweden on
energy issues.
1-It takes energy to run a Bio Gas (BG) plant. How much energy goes
into a plant to make BG and how much comes out as fuel?
2-How much fertiliser does this BG plant make in one month of
operation. How many farms could it supply. Is it possible that BG
fertilzer could at some point supply all the fertilizer needs? Is the
cost competitive with fossil fertilizers?
3-Do chemicals from the waste products used to create the bio gas get
burned up or transformed into safer material in the process of making
bio gas? If not is it possible to filter them out somehow?
4-How many BG plants would it take to replace the electrical and fuel
needs of a large population such as the USA? What would be the cost?
5-Is there any advantage the bio gas concept has over the hydrogen
fuel concept? (And vice versa)
6-Is there enough farmable land to support bio gas use on a large
scale (like throughout Europe)?
7-You mentioned using farm land that is payed by EU not to produce
crops to grow bio fuel crops. please explian.
8- What about the auto industry. If BG cars were bought in mass what
would the price drop be for the average car? Would the prices then
become competitive to standard vehicles?
9-What would be the cost of running a society such as the USA on
Biogas ie pipeline construction distribution points (gas stations)?
10-The hydrogen economy is what is being pushed by big business as the
next best replacement to oil. Would it be cheaper than the "hydrogen
economy" that now governments are rushing into. (Estimated cost for
the USA alone is 600 billion dollars.) Does biogas compete with
Hydrogen in
1 levels of pollution
2 cost of production
3 energy efficiency at the plant.
11-How much money would be put back into the community in terms of
products bought to create the gas such as manure, farm waste,
slaughter house products, etc.How much would it save in terms of waste
processing?
12-What is done with the slaughter house waste otherwise if it is not
sold to the bio gas plant?
13-How much government help has been given to BG production at your
plant, in Sweden, in Europe, in the world?
14-If the taxes upon gasoline at the pump would be applied to BG what
would be the cost of BG be then?
15- If the 251 billion dollars world wide yearly given to the oil
industry were instead given to the BG industry how many BG plants
could be made? Would that be enough to develop the BG economy just as
the Hydrogen economy?
16-What would be the economic results of turning to bio gas on a large
scale? In other words how many jobs would it create? Would it be safe
to say the jobs lost in oil drilling and production could be replaced
by BG production?
17-What is the expected production of the life of a BG plant? How much
does it cost to maintain, ie how long does a BG plant last, at what
point is a large overhaul needed and at what cost?
18-How does a BG plant compare to Nuclear. In other words how many BG
plants used strictly for gas to create electricity would it take to
replace one nuclear power plant?
19-How many jobs would be created to replace one nuclear power plant
with BG?
20-How much money goes back to a farmer who grows crops for BG yearly?
21-How much money goes to the slaughter house annually who supply raw
material for BG production?
22-Are there any other areas that save money such as vehicle
maintanence of cars and busses that run on BG as opposed to fossil
fuel?
23-What is the yearly maintenance cost of a nuclear power plant. What
is the cost of mining and transporting the nuclear raw material and
storing the waste nuclear`?
24-In a worst case scenario what is the worst accident that could
happen at a BG plant? How does it's danger compare to natural gas
storage and transportation?
25-What would it mean to the BG industry if the 3 billion SEK that is
planned for each nuclear power plant in Sweden were instead given to
BG. Could it supplement these power plants enough to supply the energy
needs of Sweden? Can nuclear power plants then be slowed to half
production giving them longer life?
26-Does a BG plant produce any harmful pollution?
27-What is the government reaction to BG plants? Has any political
party openly endorsed BG production? Has any politician aggressivley
put forth legislation to promote BG development?
28-What are the current tax structures of BG?
29-What could be the best tax structure to ensure BG development?
30-Are their any countries where BG is in full production? If so what
is their cost and experience?
Thanks
Daniel
Thanks for taking the time.
Daniel |
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