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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Small microturbine
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| Marcin Pyc |
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:40 am |
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Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making microturbines of 5-6kW?
I would be grateful for any help.
regards,
Marcin |
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| Pete Lynn |
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:09 pm |
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"Marcin Pyc" <pycmarcin@poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message
news:f248daed.0312020840.67f1e67a@posting.google.com...
Quote: Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making microturbines of
5-6kW? I would be grateful for any help.
regards,
Marcin
Capstone has one at 30kW. 5-6 kW is basically car turbocharger sized,
with a low pressure ratio and a large recuperator you might achieve 15%
efficiency, though it would not be light weight, (the heat exchanger is
heavy). Turbochargers can often be made to run as gas turbines without
recuperators, though they barely produce enough power to overcome their
own losses. Turbines can be made smaller than this though not
functioning gas turbines, efficiency starts to drop right through the
floor at this scale.
Pete. |
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| Mike O'Barr |
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:25 am |
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pycmarcin@poczta.onet.pl (Marcin Pyc) wrote in message news:<f248daed.0312020840.67f1e67a@posting.google.com>...
Quote: Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making microturbines of 5-6kW?
I would be grateful for any help.
regards,
Marcin
Greatings,
Look at surplus Garrett APU's starting with the 30-51, 30-67, 30-92,
36-6, 36-16, 36-50, 36-55, 36-100 and 36-150 series. As APU's and
ground power units they run from about 5Kw for the 30-51/67 up to
about 10Kw for the 36-150's. There are the 85 series APU's by
Garrett/AlliedSignal/Honeywell and larger.
There are also the Sundstrand APU's and Solar (company name, before
Sundstrand bought them out) Turbines and Tierney Turbines. Williams
Research (now owned by Rolls Royce)may make something along that line.
Good hunting.
Mike |
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| Mike O'Barr |
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:44 am |
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"Pete Lynn" <pete@peterlynnkites.com> wrote in message news:<1070673023.904169@kyle.snap.net.nz>...
Quote: "Marcin Pyc" <pycmarcin@poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message
news:f248daed.0312020840.67f1e67a@posting.google.com...
Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making microturbines of
5-6kW? I would be grateful for any help.
I just posted a response to your initial when I saw this response to
you.
Are you interested in efficiencies or just generation?
In otherwords whats your application?
Quote: Capstone has one at 30kW. 5-6 kW is basically car turbocharger sized,
Not quite. I worked for Honeywell (was AlliedSignal then) in their APU
testing department. We regularly generated 3.5 - 6KW on small APU's.
However, they usually ran at 400 and 600 Hz, not the 60Hz coming out
of the wall socket at home.
Quote: with a low pressure ratio and a large recuperator you might achieve 15%
efficiency, though it would not be light weight, (the heat exchanger is
heavy).
Course that would depend on the construction and materials used.
Quote: Turbochargers can often be made to run as gas turbines without
recuperators, though they barely produce enough power to overcome their
own losses.
Having built quite a few of these I can say that you are pretty much
Wrong. I pushed a go-cart around with a T04 car turbo'd engine. A
little slow at first but it did get moving given enough distance.
Course it wasn't until I got that T18 Kenworth turbo that I got that
Jet Fighter like performance I was looking for. :)
Quote: Turbines can be made smaller than this though not
functioning gas turbines, efficiency starts to drop right through the
floor at this scale.
Well, There's a guy in Tempe Arizona who would argue with you on that
considering he has a turboprop engine that is half the size of an auto
T2 turbocharger.
There is also a whole field of R/C Modelers who fly jet powered R/C's
using turbo based engines.
Now are the efficiencies all that great - heck no - but not everyone
is all that concerned about the efficiency.
Mike |
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| Pete Lynn |
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:30 pm |
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"Mike O'Barr" <obiw231@cs.com> wrote in message
news:a67c3034.0312080244.1e713aa2@posting.google.com...
Quote: "Pete Lynn" <pete@peterlynnkites.com> wrote in message
news:<1070673023.904169@kyle.snap.net.nz>...
"Marcin Pyc" <pycmarcin@poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message
news:f248daed.0312020840.67f1e67a@posting.google.com...
Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making
microturbines of 5-6kW? I would be grateful for any help.
I just posted a response to your initial when I saw this response
to you. Are you interested in efficiencies or just generation?
In otherwords whats your application?
Capstone has one at 30kW. 5-6 kW is basically car
turbocharger sized,
Not quite. I worked for Honeywell (was AlliedSignal then) in
their APU testing department. We regularly generated 3.5 -
6KW on small APU's.
However, they usually ran at 400 and 600 Hz, not the 60Hz
coming out of the wall socket at home.
Was this at part load, or were these units actually that small? I had
not realised that some APU's had got so small, this infers useful
efficiency at this scale, I see I have a bit of research ahead of me. :)
Admittedly the last time I seriously studied the field the Capstone
Turbine was still referred to as a Nomex design, or some such. This was
almost ten years back when I was interested in microturbines as home CHP
units. At the time I think I figured 20% efficiency might be possible
at such scales, if I pushed the recuperator, but a refined ICE still
looked better.
Quote: with a low pressure ratio and a large recuperator you might
achieve 15% efficiency, though it would not be light weight,
(the heat exchanger is heavy).
Course that would depend on the construction and materials
used.
Of course, ( I am a little out of date).
Quote: Turbochargers can often be made to run as gas turbines
without recuperators, though they barely produce enough
power to overcome their own losses.
Having built quite a few of these I can say that you are pretty
much Wrong. I pushed a go-cart around with a T04 car turbo'd
engine. A little slow at first but it did get moving given enough
distance.
Direct thrust, or power take off?
Quote: Course it wasn't until I got that T18 Kenworth turbo that I got
that Jet Fighter like performance I was looking for.
My father has an original Rover gas turbine, the first commercial units
used as portable water pumps for fire fighting. He winds it up
regularly, it is somewhat more impressive than the other old stationary
engines in his collection, as you can probably imagine. :-)
A friend of mine once made a standard car turbocharger run as a gas
turbine, barely, though it was an old OTS unit, without
compressor/turbine matching. There were various model jet engines
around at the time, very noisy, very inefficient, but functional.
Quote: Turbines can be made smaller than this though not
functioning gas turbines, efficiency starts to drop right through
the floor at this scale.
Well, There's a guy in Tempe Arizona who would argue with you > on
that considering he has a turboprop engine that is half the size
of an auto T2 turbocharger.
That's impressive, how did he accomplish the power takeoff?
Quote: There is also a whole field of R/C Modelers who fly jet powered
R/C's using turbo based engines.
Now are the efficiencies all that great - heck no - but not
everyone is all that concerned about the efficiency.
Very true.
> Mike |
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| Marcin Pyc |
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:10 pm |
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obiw231@cs.com (Mike O'Barr) wrote in message news:<a67c3034.0312080225.1c963b23@posting.google.com>...
Quote: pycmarcin@poczta.onet.pl (Marcin Pyc) wrote in message news:<f248daed.0312020840.67f1e67a@posting.google.com>...
Hi,
has anybody heard about any company making microturbines of 5-6kW?
I would be grateful for any help.
regards,
Marcin
Greatings,
Look at surplus Garrett APU's starting with the 30-51, 30-67, 30-92,
36-6, 36-16, 36-50, 36-55, 36-100 and 36-150 series. As APU's and
ground power units they run from about 5Kw for the 30-51/67 up to
about 10Kw for the 36-150's. There are the 85 series APU's by
Garrett/AlliedSignal/Honeywell and larger.
There are also the Sundstrand APU's and Solar (company name, before
Sundstrand bought them out) Turbines and Tierney Turbines. Williams
Research (now owned by Rolls Royce)may make something along that line.
Good hunting.
Mike
Hi,
Thanks a lot for your help. It was exactly that what I was looking for.
greetings
Marcin |
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