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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Underground tunnels keep buildings warm in winter , cool in
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| Scott A Crosby |
 Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:48 am |
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On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:57:56 GMT, habshi@anony.com (Habshi) writes:
Quote: Dont know , but if it cuts USA energy imports by 40% year
after year , then it would be crazy not to use them.
Cite? AFAIK, we may import 40% of our energy in the form of oil, but
90% of that is used in transportation, not home heating.
Besides, if home heating oil becomes too expensive, switch to electric
and nuclear. No imports needed. :)
Oil is a pretty substitutable good for home heating, it is not
substitable good for transport-- what do you replace it with?
Quote: Americans are already so rich , dont know what they will do
with $100b a year saved on oil imports.
Cite?
I can definitely tell you that if my family could save $1000/year,
with a cheap product, we would. The fact that mine, and a hundred
million others, aren't, should say that something isn't quite right
with that product.
Scott |
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| Habshi |
| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:00 am |
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On 01 Nov 2003 23:48:22 -0600, Scott A Crosby <scrosby@cs.rice.edu>
wrote:
Quote: Oil is a pretty substitutable good for home heating, it is not
substitable good for transport-- what do you replace it with?
Does it matter . If you can cut oil imports by 40% by using
geothermal heat surely it would eke out supplies for longer ?
However the govt needs to mandate new buildings having such a
heat source or give interest free loans to be repaid from the savings
(even in Canada it is viable ) and America is ten degrees warmer , so
that economies of scale make it even cheaper and the payback period
less than five years . |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:02 am |
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In article <3fa4ff7b.4858876@news.clara.net>,
habshi@anony.com (Habshi) wrote:
Quote: On 01 Nov 2003 23:48:22 -0600, Scott A Crosby <scrosby@cs.rice.edu
wrote:
Oil is a pretty substitutable good for home heating, it is not
substitable good for transport-- what do you replace it with?
Does it matter . If you can cut oil imports by 40% by using
geothermal heat surely it would eke out supplies for longer ?
However the govt needs to mandate new buildings having such a
heat source or give interest free loans to be repaid from the savings
(even in Canada it is viable ) and America is ten degrees warmer , so
that economies of scale make it even cheaper and the payback period
less than five years .
Letmesee....I'm paying $500/year for my fuel oil. Last I heard
backhoe diggers were charging $30K-$50K to dig a hole, to put
a cement box in the ground and fill the hole back up.
Yep. I'm gonna get back in five years or less. None of this
provides my power needs.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. |
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| Scott A Crosby |
| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:13 am |
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On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 13:00:49 GMT, habshi@anony.com (Habshi) writes:
Quote: On 01 Nov 2003 23:48:22 -0600, Scott A Crosby <scrosby@cs.rice.edu
wrote:
Oil is a pretty substitutable good for home heating, it is not
substitable good for transport-- what do you replace it with?
Does it matter . If you can cut oil imports by 40% by using
geothermal heat surely it would eke out supplies for longer ?
Where does your 'cut oil imports by 40%' come from? The only
connection between oil and heating that I can think of is people in
the north that use oil-based furnaces in winter. Fortunately, that use
can be relatively quickly and easily replaced with electricity -- it
already has in places where electicity is relatively cheap and home
heating isn't needed often.
Its a shame that the nuts have inflated the cost of nuclear power by
10x. We might see more electrical-based heating in the north.
Quote: However the govt needs to mandate new buildings having such a
heat source or give interest free loans to be repaid from the savings
(even in Canada it is viable ) and America is ten degrees warmer , so
that economies of scale make it even cheaper and the payback period
less than five years .
You mean a subsidy. It seems to me that much of the cost of this sort
of system above that of a A/C is going to be building the external
heat-loop. I don't see how economies of scale would make it *that*
much cheaper to dig a lot of ditches and holes. Err, I mean destroy
topsoil.  Hell, we dig a lot as it is.
If I remember from a prior post I did here, geothermal ROUGHLY doubles
the efficiency heating. In that if you use the ground as a heat-sink,
you can get about 2MJ of heat out of 1MJ of electricity. In exchange,
it requires a large compressor. Where does the electricity come from?
I bet the reason its not caught on is that it exchanges expensive
electricity for cheap fuel oil. Turn yourself pro-nuclear, and make
electricity cheaper and avoid burning a billion tons of coal a
year. :)
There are also issues with the cold heat-loop. In particular, what
working fluid does one use on the cold-loop, and how environmentally
friendly will the inevitable leaks be? Also the cold loop working
fluid and surrounding ground cannot be allowed to freeze. Any
estimation of how big in mass that that heat sink needs to be?
Scott |
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| Paul R. Mays |
| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:46 pm |
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<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:bo36em$mmu$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
Quote: In article <3fa4ff7b.4858876@news.clara.net>,
habshi@anony.com (Habshi) wrote:
On 01 Nov 2003 23:48:22 -0600, Scott A Crosby <scrosby@cs.rice.edu
wrote:
Oil is a pretty substitutable good for home heating, it is not
substitable good for transport-- what do you replace it with?
Does it matter . If you can cut oil imports by 40% by using
geothermal heat surely it would eke out supplies for longer ?
However the govt needs to mandate new buildings having such a
heat source or give interest free loans to be repaid from the savings
(even in Canada it is viable ) and America is ten degrees warmer , so
that economies of scale make it even cheaper and the payback period
less than five years .
Letmesee....I'm paying $500/year for my fuel oil. Last I heard
backhoe diggers were charging $30K-$50K to dig a hole, to put
a cement box in the ground and fill the hole back up.
Yep. I'm gonna get back in five years or less. None of this
provides my power needs.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Are any of you aware that by simply legalizing biomass hemp
and converting to a fuel ( US Dept of Ag Bul 202 , 1934) and
allowing the farming of ZERO psychoactive compound plants
that 40% of all oil needs would be replaced with a annually
renewable fuel source... I can point to all the validating for this but
don't really feel like it at the moment..... If you want to cut
fossil fuel usage, have paper that last 10 times longer than acid
based paper we use today, put a massive new commercial farming
crop into production and help man in many ways, help get rid
of a verifiably fraudulently emplaced law....
--
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes,
Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing,
result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek
sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.'
-Harry Anslinger,Commissioner of Narcotics, testifying to Congress, 1937 |
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