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Science Forum Index » Energy Forum » Waste for Energy
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| Radium |
 Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:32 am |
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Guest
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Is it possible to build a car/plane that uses heat, sound, CO, CO2,
SO, SO2, NO, NO2, and acids for energy by stealing them from the
enviroment (rather than desperately waiting for them) without
violating any laws of physics?
These energies must somehow be converted to mechanical energy that
drives the engine of the car or plane.
"Waste for Energy" refers to the use of unwanted products such as
pollutants, heat, and sound for essential purposes. |
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| Ivar S. Ertesvåg |
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:20 am |
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Radium wrote:
Quote:
Is it possible to build a car/plane that uses heat, sound, CO, CO2,
SO, SO2, NO, NO2, and acids for energy by stealing them from the
enviroment (rather than desperately waiting for them) without
violating any laws of physics?
If environment means the atmosphere, the answer is probably no.
Although there are some CO, SOx, NOx etc. in the air, and these
substances in principle are fuels, the concentrations are very low.
There is a minimum cost (chemical exergy) of concentrating these
substances. (You need a 2nd-law or exergy analysis to see this
cost.) In practice, the cost of concentration may be bigger
than the actual energy contained in them.
For heat: In principle, a boat can utilize the temperature difference
between air and sea. However, this difference is usually quite small
and in practice the possibilities are small. May be you can build
something for fun, just to see that it works. (You must not care about
the economical cost  ) Your problem will be that the
heat exchangers have to be quite big, and that a sufficiently big
boat may be too big for the power you can gain.
Quote:
These energies must somehow be converted to mechanical energy that
drives the engine of the car or plane.
"Waste for Energy" refers to the use of unwanted products such as
pollutants, heat, and sound for essential purposes. |
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| Line Noise |
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:09 pm |
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Guest
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In article <464c821f.0310272132.4e4bced1@posting.google.com>,
glucegen@excite.com (Radium) wrote:
Quote: Is it possible to build a car/plane that uses heat, sound, CO, CO2,
SO, SO2, NO, NO2, and acids for energy by stealing them from the
enviroment (rather than desperately waiting for them) without
violating any laws of physics?
These energies must somehow be converted to mechanical energy that
drives the engine of the car or plane.
"Waste for Energy" refers to the use of unwanted products such as
pollutants, heat, and sound for essential purposes.
Do you think of the wind as a "waste" product?
If so then you could fly a glider or sail a ship.
You _might_ be able to use the waste heat of your primary engine to
run a 2nd sterling engine and then use the sound of both engines to
power a sound -> electricity system. i.e.. wrap the engines in microphones.
But now you engine is Huge and moving it around takes energy!
Why not keep the engine at home where it does not matter how heavy it is?
Then all you need is a good/light battery and a system to recharge en-route
from the breaking of the tiers and descending hills.
For long-haul and highway driving you may want bio-deasal, rent one.
Now can we make an stationary engine that runs off of waste? I don't think so.
But waste, sunlight and time will produce bio-deasal. We have plenty of
the first two ... I'm not certain about the third. |
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| Radium |
| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:41 pm |
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Guest
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Speaking of "bio-deasel", would it be possible to genetically-engineer
bacteria to use CO, CO2, NO, NO2, SO, SO2, sulfuric acid, HCI, nitric
acid, other strong acids and heat (thermosynthesis) for energy, and
give out electricity as a waste product with the help of
"electrocytes" cloned from electric eels.
Quote: You _might_ be able to use the waste heat of your primary engine to
run a 2nd sterling engine and then use the sound of both engines to
power a sound -> electricity system. i.e.. wrap the engines in microphones.
But now you engine is Huge and moving it around takes energy!
Why not keep the engine at home where it does not matter how heavy it is?
Then all you need is a good/light battery and a system to recharge en-route
from the breaking of the tiers and descending hills.
For long-haul and highway driving you may want bio-deasal, rent one.
Now can we make an stationary engine that runs off of waste? I don't think so.
But waste, sunlight and time will produce bio-deasal. We have plenty of
the first two ... I'm not certain about the third. |
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| Line Noise |
| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:29 am |
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Guest
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In article <464c821f.0310311841.737d6a3d@posting.google.com>,
glucegen@excite.com (Radium) wrote:
Quote: Speaking of "bio-deasel", would it be possible to genetically-engineer
bacteria to use CO, CO2, NO, NO2, SO, SO2, sulfuric acid, HCI, nitric
acid, other strong acids and heat (thermosynthesis) for energy, and
give out electricity as a waste product with the help of
"electrocytes" cloned from electric eels.
Maybe, but it seems like a lot of effort, and Monsanto would probably
end up holding the patend on the nevo-bug. You want that?
Put a hydroponic greenhouse over the car-port, sell the trimmings to
the city-bio-deasel Co. Do the same with farm refuse.
Spend the genetic-engineering money on making a weak bacterum than
can live only on the blood stream and only eats colesteral diposits.
....just don't test it on me! |
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