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Steve Schulin
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:05 pm
Guest
According to today's Electricity Daily, there's a paper currently
undergoing peer review for Science that will surely be of interest to
some here.

The paper is by David Keith of Carnegie Mellon U and six or so
colleagues. The scientists suggest the possibility that "the climatic
response to extraction of wind power and to CO2 concentrations is
roughly linear". The theory that large-scale wind power might very well
increase global warming "will sicken many greens", the trade paper
predicts. Here's some details: "Large-scale use of wind power can alter
local and global climate by extracting kinetic energy and by modifying
turbulent transport in the atmospheric boundary layer. [Keith et al]
explored the climatic impacts of extracting 3-20 TW of electricity with
a suite of numerical experiments using two independent atmospheric
[global circulation models] and two paramatizations of the wind-turbine
arrays. Wind power has a negligible effect on global-mean surface
temperature but, at continental scales, the average magnitude of
climatic change due to wind power can be significant when compared to
the reduction in climatic change achieved by the substitution of wind
for fossil fuels."

[Source: THE ELECTRICITY DAILY, "New Paper Says Wind Power May Increase
Global Warming", v21 n83, October 28, 2003]
Roland Paterson-Jones
Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:29 pm
Guest
I have to say that's bullshit.

The capture hight of wind-farms is 30m in the air. This is inconsequential
compared to global weather patterns.

I went to the site (http://www.electricity-daily.com), and read the
following:

"Written in full-blown science-speak, a new paper now circulating for review
suggests that large-scale wind power might very well increase global
warming, a theory that will sicken many greens"

Ooohh, full-blown science-speak.

Of course you can't access the paper unless you are a member of Electricity
Daily

Steve, are you man enough to provide access to the original paper, so we can
appraise it without the spin?

Roland
--
Roland and Lisa Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com

"Steve Schulin" <steve.schulin@nuclear.com> wrote in message
news:steve.schulin-013EF8.16053928102003@comcast.ash.giganews.com...
Quote:
According to today's Electricity Daily, there's a paper currently
undergoing peer review for Science that will surely be of interest to
some here.

The paper is by David Keith of Carnegie Mellon U and six or so
colleagues. The scientists suggest the possibility that "the climatic
response to extraction of wind power and to CO2 concentrations is
roughly linear". The theory that large-scale wind power might very well
increase global warming "will sicken many greens", the trade paper
predicts. Here's some details: "Large-scale use of wind power can alter
local and global climate by extracting kinetic energy and by modifying
turbulent transport in the atmospheric boundary layer. [Keith et al]
explored the climatic impacts of extracting 3-20 TW of electricity with
a suite of numerical experiments using two independent atmospheric
[global circulation models] and two paramatizations of the wind-turbine
arrays. Wind power has a negligible effect on global-mean surface
temperature but, at continental scales, the average magnitude of
climatic change due to wind power can be significant when compared to
the reduction in climatic change achieved by the substitution of wind
for fossil fuels."

[Source: THE ELECTRICITY DAILY, "New Paper Says Wind Power May Increase
Global Warming", v21 n83, October 28, 2003]
Steve S
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:52 am
Guest
Steve Schulin <steve.schulin@nuclear.com> wrote in message news:<steve.schulin-013EF8.16053928102003@comcast.ash.giganews.com>...
Quote:
According to today's Electricity Daily, there's a paper currently
undergoing peer review for Science that will surely be of interest to
some here.

The paper is by David Keith of Carnegie Mellon U and six or so
colleagues. The scientists suggest the possibility that "the climatic
response to extraction of wind power and to CO2 concentrations is
roughly linear". The theory that large-scale wind power might very well
increase global warming "will sicken many greens", the trade paper
predicts. Here's some details: "Large-scale use of wind power can alter
local and global climate by extracting kinetic energy and by modifying
turbulent transport in the atmospheric boundary layer. [Keith et al]
explored the climatic impacts of extracting 3-20 TW of electricity with
a suite of numerical experiments using two independent atmospheric
[global circulation models] and two paramatizations of the wind-turbine
arrays. Wind power has a negligible effect on global-mean surface
temperature but, at continental scales, the average magnitude of
climatic change due to wind power can be significant when compared to
the reduction in climatic change achieved by the substitution of wind
for fossil fuels."

[Source: THE ELECTRICITY DAILY, "New Paper Says Wind Power May Increase
Global Warming", v21 n83, October 28, 2003]


Whoa - let me guess who might have funded that "study"!!
Steve Schulin
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:09 am
Guest
In article <bnn1mi$no5$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote:

Quote:
I have to say that's bullshit.

The capture hight of wind-farms is 30m in the air. This is inconsequential
compared to global weather patterns.

I went to the site (http://www.electricity-daily.com), and read the
following:

"Written in full-blown science-speak, a new paper now circulating for review
suggests that large-scale wind power might very well increase global
warming, a theory that will sicken many greens"

Ooohh, full-blown science-speak.

Of course you can't access the paper unless you are a member of Electricity
Daily

Steve, are you man enough to provide access to the original paper, so we can
appraise it without the spin?

I look forward to reading more about this too. The lead author seems
pretty diligent about making his work available in timely fashion. Maybe
he'll post a post-acceptance preprint, or a post-rejection postprint.
His Climate and Energy Related Publications page is
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/dk3p/climate+energy.html

Quote:
"Steve Schulin" <steve.schulin@nuclear.com> wrote in message
news:steve.schulin-013EF8.16053928102003@comcast.ash.giganews.com...
According to today's Electricity Daily, there's a paper currently
undergoing peer review for Science that will surely be of interest to
some here.

The paper is by David Keith of Carnegie Mellon U and six or so
colleagues. The scientists suggest the possibility that "the climatic
response to extraction of wind power and to CO2 concentrations is
roughly linear". The theory that large-scale wind power might very well
increase global warming "will sicken many greens", the trade paper
predicts. Here's some details: "Large-scale use of wind power can alter
local and global climate by extracting kinetic energy and by modifying
turbulent transport in the atmospheric boundary layer. [Keith et al]
explored the climatic impacts of extracting 3-20 TW of electricity with
a suite of numerical experiments using two independent atmospheric
[global circulation models] and two paramatizations of the wind-turbine
arrays. Wind power has a negligible effect on global-mean surface
temperature but, at continental scales, the average magnitude of
climatic change due to wind power can be significant when compared to
the reduction in climatic change achieved by the substitution of wind
for fossil fuels."

[Source: THE ELECTRICITY DAILY, "New Paper Says Wind Power May Increase
Global Warming", v21 n83, October 28, 2003]
Fred B. McGalliard
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:51 am
Guest
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote in message
news:bnn1mi$no5$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
Quote:
I have to say that's bullshit.

The capture hight of wind-farms is 30m in the air. This is inconsequential
compared to global weather patterns.

I Second the point. Besides, we cut down trees, replace with wind farms,
total effect, a reduction in surface drag because we cut down way more
trees.
 
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