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Author Message
Phil McKerracher
Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:28 am
Guest
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group misc.metric-system

[ Note: This document is multiposted in 3 copies because too many
large service providers implement crossposting limits and
would otherwise drop it.

- n.a.n moderation team ]

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup misc.metric-system. This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
misc.metric-system The International System of Units.

RATIONALE: misc.metric-system

Units of measurement and related standards affect many aspects of our
daily lives. The global standardization of a single consistent
International System of Units was a major breakthrough for human
civilization and significantly simplified communication, learning,
work and trade all over the planet.

The introduction of the metric system still faces delays in some
areas. Notable examples are consumer communication and traffic
regulations in the United States and United Kingdom, as well as parts
of the aeronautical and typographic industry. It is therefore no
surprise that discussions about the metric system flare up regularly
in many different newsgroups. In particular the slow progress with
metrication in the United States promises to fuel such debates for
many years to come.

A dedicated newsgroup will focus expertise and will provide a medium
for professionals and hobbyists to find advice and suggestions on
metric product standards and conventions. None of the newsgroups in
which metric-system issues flare up frequently is particularly suited
for this topic by charter and readership. The popularity of the
existing US and UK Metric Associations' mailing lists demonstrates
that there is a significant number of people interested in the topic.
Considering the important role that units of measurement play in
everyone's life, this promises to become a quite lively newsgroup.

The name of the proposed group has been the subject of some debate.
The present proposal is motivated by these considerations:

- Although discussions about the metric system focus much on its
slow progress in a small number of countries, the topic is
inherently international in nature and discussions tend to benefit
very significantly from world-wide participation. Therefore,
placing the group under us.* or uk.* would be inappropriate.

- The metric system affects many fields, including consumer
communication and road traffic. Discussions about the metric
system range from basic science and applied engineering
considerations to economic, social, psychological, legal, public
policy and media aspects. This excludes sci.* and leaves misc.* as
the most appropriate hierarchy.

- The metric system is the only system of units used in almost every
region and field of application. "Imperial" and "U.S. Customary"
units are usually discussed in relation to the metric system,
which is within the scope of the proposed group. Other unit
systems have very limited applications and are better discussed in
specialized science or history groups. The proposed group is far
more likely to have specialized children rather than equivalent
siblings, which speaks against an entire misc.measurement.*
hierarchy and justifies a place directly under misc.

- The term "metric system" remains the most well known and most
easily recognized English language term for what is more formally
called the "International System of Units (SI)". This speaks
against group names such as *.si or *.metric.

The proposed charter is meant to be broad enough to cover discussions
about different historic variants of the metric system (CGM, MKS,
various European customary units) as well as contemporary units that
compete with the SI. At the same time, it is narrow enough to exclude
topics such as the history and redefinition of calendars. It leaves
room for the possible later creation of a separate
misc.metric-system.advocacy group for those with a particular interest
in political activities related to metrication.

CHARTER: misc.metric-system

This newsgroup is for discussion about the International System of
Units (SI) or Metric System, including its use in scientific,
technical, and consumer applications, its history and definition, and
its adoption in fields and regions where other units of measurement
are still prevalent (metrication). Included within its scope are
related global standards and conventions, for example metric product
specifications and consumer-product labelling practice.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.physics
sci.math
sci.engr
soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.canada
soc.culture.europe
comp.std.internat
misc.transport.road

Pointers will be posted to the following mailing lists:

usma at colostate.edu (U.S. Metric Association discussion list)
Subscription information: http://www.metric.org/listserv.htm

metric at smartgroups.com (UK Metric Association discussion list)
Subscription only

Proponent: Markus Kuhn Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk
Travis Park
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:34 am
Guest
"Phil McKerracher" <phil@mckerracher.org> wrote in message news:<hzX9b.12973$rA4.111337662@news-text.cableinet.net>...
Quote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group misc.metric-system

[ Note: This document is multiposted in 3 copies because too many
large service providers implement crossposting limits and
would otherwise drop it.

- n.a.n moderation team ]

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup misc.metric-system. This is
not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time. Procedural
details are below.

Newsgroup line:
misc.metric-system The International System of Units.

RATIONALE: misc.metric-system

Units of measurement and related standards affect many aspects of our
daily lives. The global standardization of a single consistent
International System of Units was a major breakthrough for human
civilization and significantly simplified communication, learning,
work and trade all over the planet.

The introduction of the metric system still faces delays in some
areas. Notable examples are consumer communication and traffic
regulations in the United States and United Kingdom, as well as parts
of the aeronautical and typographic industry. It is therefore no
surprise that discussions about the metric system flare up regularly
in many different newsgroups. In particular the slow progress with
metrication in the United States promises to fuel such debates for
many years to come.

A dedicated newsgroup will focus expertise and will provide a medium
for professionals and hobbyists to find advice and suggestions on
metric product standards and conventions. None of the newsgroups in
which metric-system issues flare up frequently is particularly suited
for this topic by charter and readership. The popularity of the
existing US and UK Metric Associations' mailing lists demonstrates
that there is a significant number of people interested in the topic.
Considering the important role that units of measurement play in
everyone's life, this promises to become a quite lively newsgroup.

The name of the proposed group has been the subject of some debate.
The present proposal is motivated by these considerations:

- Although discussions about the metric system focus much on its
slow progress in a small number of countries, the topic is
inherently international in nature and discussions tend to benefit
very significantly from world-wide participation. Therefore,
placing the group under us.* or uk.* would be inappropriate.

- The metric system affects many fields, including consumer
communication and road traffic. Discussions about the metric
system range from basic science and applied engineering
considerations to economic, social, psychological, legal, public
policy and media aspects. This excludes sci.* and leaves misc.* as
the most appropriate hierarchy.

- The metric system is the only system of units used in almost every
region and field of application. "Imperial" and "U.S. Customary"
units are usually discussed in relation to the metric system,
which is within the scope of the proposed group. Other unit
systems have very limited applications and are better discussed in
specialized science or history groups. The proposed group is far
more likely to have specialized children rather than equivalent
siblings, which speaks against an entire misc.measurement.*
hierarchy and justifies a place directly under misc.

- The term "metric system" remains the most well known and most
easily recognized English language term for what is more formally
called the "International System of Units (SI)". This speaks
against group names such as *.si or *.metric.

The proposed charter is meant to be broad enough to cover discussions
about different historic variants of the metric system (CGM, MKS,
various European customary units) as well as contemporary units that
compete with the SI. At the same time, it is narrow enough to exclude
topics such as the history and redefinition of calendars. It leaves
room for the possible later creation of a separate
misc.metric-system.advocacy group for those with a particular interest
in political activities related to metrication.

CHARTER: misc.metric-system

This newsgroup is for discussion about the International System of
Units (SI) or Metric System, including its use in scientific,
technical, and consumer applications, its history and definition, and
its adoption in fields and regions where other units of measurement
are still prevalent (metrication). Included within its scope are
related global standards and conventions, for example metric product
specifications and consumer-product labelling practice.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.

This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups
sci.physics
sci.math
sci.engr
soc.culture.usa
soc.culture.canada
soc.culture.europe
comp.std.internat
misc.transport.road

Pointers will be posted to the following mailing lists:

usma at colostate.edu (U.S. Metric Association discussion list)
Subscription information: http://www.metric.org/listserv.htm

metric at smartgroups.com (UK Metric Association discussion list)
Subscription only

Proponent: Markus Kuhn Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk


.......Yawn.....
Kath
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:35 am
Guest
"Travis Park" <t.park@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:266cca51.0309180434.49f5e1cd@posting.google.com...
Quote:
"Phil McKerracher" <phil@mckerracher.org> wrote in message
news:<hzX9b.12973$rA4.111337662@news-text.cableinet.net>...
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group misc.metric-system



......Yawn.....

Discuss this:

Yesterday I heard someone say,"As long as we rule the world, we'll use which
ever system we want."
(He was one of those software engineers and probably a Republican.)
Guest
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:14 pm
Like it or not, metric is sneaking in, slowly like taxes. Soft drinks
and bottled water come in liter or 1/2 liter containers, military and
NASA use metric on daily basis, Sci-Fi TV shows note it all the time,
freeway ramps are 'metered' and not 'Footed.' Choice of metric
calculations on exams in various universities, Travel guides
instructing people who like to visit Europe to become familiar with
concept of Km vs Miles, some high-end kitchen appliances like stoves
give you choice of C or F, hospitals, pharmaceutics, and
pharmaceutical companies all deal with metric measurements and whem
you think about it, the mighty dollar is 100 cents, 10 dimes, each
dime is 10 cents, a nickle is 1/2 of 10 cents,...very similar to
concept of metric system, ain't it? So I do not know what the big
deal is but again, soccer in the rest of the world is known as
FOOTBALL except, HERE.

with regards,

CMC


"Kath" <kathatwork@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<DYKcnfexMObdWfSiXTWJkA@comcast.com>...
Quote:
"Travis Park" <t.park@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:266cca51.0309180434.49f5e1cd@posting.google.com...
"Phil McKerracher" <phil@mckerracher.org> wrote in message
news:<hzX9b.12973$rA4.111337662@news-text.cableinet.net>...
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group misc.metric-system



......Yawn.....

Discuss this:

Yesterday I heard someone say,"As long as we rule the world, we'll use which
ever system we want."
(He was one of those software engineers and probably a Republican.)
Michael Johnson, PE
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:06 pm
Guest
A few years ago the local governments in Northern Virginia required all
development plans to be done in metric. It was a disaster. After a
year they dropped the requirement. Even the foreign engineers who were
used to the metric system hated it. There's too many things to change
to make it worth doing. Converting English units to metric created odd
numbers for everything from right-of-way widths to pipe sizes, buffers
etc. Trying to round the metric numbers created incompatibilities
everywhere. Then they required plats to have both metric and English
dimensions which made twice the work for what purpose? Then the
counties refused to update their data bases for parcel info, topography
etc. to metric standards. This meant they required planning documents
to be done in English so they could compare them to their data base.
Then they expected us to convert everything to metric during the final
engineering process. Basically, they didn't mind inconveniencing us in
the private sector but when it became obvious they needed to do their
part and spend a sizable amount of money converting their database they
bailed on the whole idea. I doubt we'll ever see another push to the
metric system any time soon.

CarpenterCM@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:
Like it or not, metric is sneaking in, slowly like taxes. Soft drinks
and bottled water come in liter or 1/2 liter containers, military and
NASA use metric on daily basis, Sci-Fi TV shows note it all the time,
freeway ramps are 'metered' and not 'Footed.' Choice of metric
calculations on exams in various universities, Travel guides
instructing people who like to visit Europe to become familiar with
concept of Km vs Miles, some high-end kitchen appliances like stoves
give you choice of C or F, hospitals, pharmaceutics, and
pharmaceutical companies all deal with metric measurements and whem
you think about it, the mighty dollar is 100 cents, 10 dimes, each
dime is 10 cents, a nickle is 1/2 of 10 cents,...very similar to
concept of metric system, ain't it? So I do not know what the big
deal is but again, soccer in the rest of the world is known as
FOOTBALL except, HERE.

with regards,

CMC


"Kath" <kathatwork@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<DYKcnfexMObdWfSiXTWJkA@comcast.com>...

"Travis Park" <t.park@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:266cca51.0309180434.49f5e1cd@posting.google.com...

"Phil McKerracher" <phil@mckerracher.org> wrote in message

news:<hzX9b.12973$rA4.111337662@news-text.cableinet.net>...

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group misc.metric-system



......Yawn.....

Discuss this:

Yesterday I heard someone say,"As long as we rule the world, we'll use which
ever system we want."
(He was one of those software engineers and probably a Republican.)
James Robinson
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:21 pm
Guest
"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote:
Quote:

A few years ago the local governments in Northern Virginia required all
development plans to be done in metric. It was a disaster.

There are a number of countries around the world that managed to make
the change, so it isn't impossible. Canada is probably the best example
of US style engineering.
 
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