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Science Forum Index » Cognitive Science Forum » Interesting views on consciousness
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| Laurent |
 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:13 am |
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| Alex Green |
| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:51 am |
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"Laurent" <cyberdyno4@starpower.net> wrote in message news:<gO-dnYYHZ-cJ-X2iRVn-iw@comcast.com>...
[Alex]
You wrote:
"There are no empty spaces in the classical sense. There can't be a
void, not as a real thing. If it is, then it isn't a void. A void is
synonymous to nothingness (no-thing), and if space is a thing then, a
void must logically be devoid from any notions of space or space-like
extensions. There is no place for voids in a spacetime continuum
either, or it wouldn't be a continuum."
I agree that the term "thing" cannot mean "no thing" if the terms are
in the same logical universe of discourse. However, if "thing" is
taken as the philosophical term "thing", meaning any attribute, entity
or set of entities then there is a set that is "NOT matter and NOT
energy". This set is a thing and might be named "the set that
contains void".
This issue of the relationship of space to substance is extremely
ancient and unresolved. We can only define void with reference to a
container and we can only define a container with reference to
extension. But is extension evidence of void?
If energy, or the form of energy known as matter, can be arranged so
that the arrangements are discernable then extension is implied. In
fact we could define extension in terms of discernable arrangements.
Even identical things can have discernable arrangements so another
term such as "extension" with subterms such as "linear" is required to
describe the arrangements. Extension is clearly related to measurement
(discernment).
Measurement is related to energy in the sense that no measurement can
be recorded or made without the possibility of arrangements of energy.
But it is also related to space because without extension there could
be no arrangements and time because without duration there could be no
changes in arrangements.
Is there a prexisting "void" into which things can be arranged? The
conceptual problem in proving this issue one way or the other is that
the moment we attempt to measure the "void" our measurements introduce
things into the void and hence do not measure emptiness.
Introducing an aether does not seem to resolve either the problem of
the container or the problem the prexisting void. If the aether were
to have "properties" such as energy then it would be equally accurate
to say that the void contained energy as to say that the aether was
energetic.
Are you sure that you can define energy without assuming extension and
extension without assuming void? Energy is a propensity for motion,
matter contains a vast amount of energy which means that a few grams
could set an entire city in motion. How much matter would you have if
it occupied no space and existed for no time? Such a sample of matter
would be "no thing" and could not move any thing, let alone a city.
But does space exist as the mere possibility of extension and time
exist as the possibility of rearrangement?
Best Wishes
Alex Green |
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