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| Mark Monson |
 Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:57 pm |
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MUST try harder
Guardian Unlimited - UK
.... A neat solution was proposed more than a century ago by an American
economist named Henry George. Today, his followers are subjected to
unfair accusations of intellectual naivety by the economics mainstream ...
<http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/comment/0,11268,1656759,00.html>
A better way to replace council tax
The Herald - Glasgow,Scotland,UK
.... In practical terms, land-value taxation is an obvious choice.
Valuation could be done mostly from maps, and collection would be ...
<http://www.theherald.co.uk/51925.shtml>
LAND tax proposal should get a look
Lindsay This Week - Peterborough,Ontario,Canada
.... The local improvement system should be restored. Back in the late
1800s, there was a popular proposal to eliminate property tax and
replace it with land tax. ...
<http://www.mykawartha.com/ka/opinion/letters/story/3204518p-3711448c.html> |
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| sinister |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:10 am |
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"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:kFLmf.1297$kP5.933@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
[quote:5d2c637687]MUST try harder
[/quote:5d2c637687]
I don't see why we don't form local land tax clubs, which would advertise
talks very publically, attack motions to cut property taxes at the local
government meetings, etc.
The region I live in (Wash DC metro area) really needs such a club. The
claim that property tax payers are bearing some kind of cross is dogma here.
[quote:5d2c637687]Guardian Unlimited - UK
... A neat solution was proposed more than a century ago by an American
economist named Henry George. Today, his followers are subjected to unfair
accusations of intellectual naivety by the economics mainstream ...
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/comment/0,11268,1656759,00.html
A better way to replace council tax
The Herald - Glasgow,Scotland,UK
... In practical terms, land-value taxation is an obvious choice.
Valuation could be done mostly from maps, and collection would be ...
http://www.theherald.co.uk/51925.shtml
LAND tax proposal should get a look
Lindsay This Week - Peterborough,Ontario,Canada
... The local improvement system should be restored. Back in the late
1800s, there was a popular proposal to eliminate property tax and replace
it with land tax. ...
http://www.mykawartha.com/ka/opinion/letters/story/3204518p-3711448c.html[/quote:5d2c637687] |
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| Quirk |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:30 pm |
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sinister wrote:
[quote:c59f413b78]We sould form local rent sharing clubs, not to waste our breath on the
hear-no-evil State, but to ACQUIRE LAND, and then employ an LVT-like
Rent Sharing mechanism to allocate it within the clubs.
That's a very interesting idea.
[/quote:c59f413b78]
It's one of the principals in the model I call Venture Communism, but
it can certainly work on it's own as well.
http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=VentureCommunism
[quote:c59f413b78]I had a similar thought---some kind
nonprofit organization, or maybe for-profit.
[/quote:c59f413b78]
I say non-profit, I think the Rent-sharing Club should simply collect
the rent and split it up per-capita, and do nothing else. This prevents
an aristocracy of influence from building up around the rental
earnings.
That said, they should rent their holding to the highest bidder, even
if that bidder is not a member of the club.
[quote:c59f413b78]It evolved to the point where
rent would be retained to the fullest degree possible, and used to buy up
more land. Then when enough land were purchased it would implement rent
sharing.
[/quote:c59f413b78]
As I believe the rent should be simply split up among the members, I
propose the idea of selling Bonds at dutch auction, backed in the newly
acquired land inorder to grow.
Naturally, many members would use their Rent-sharing Dividend to buy
these bonds, but perhaps non-members would too, bidding down interest
rates and allowing to Club to grow at a rate potentially greater than
what it could by only retaining the rent and investing it, as a
land-backed bond would be a pretty low-risk investment.
[quote:c59f413b78]Kind of like a virus of some sort.
[/quote:c59f413b78]
Exactly. This is one of the central ideas in Anarchism; "Building the
new society in the shell of the old."
Cheers.
"Nothing can prevent the united consumers from working for
themselves with the aid of mutual credit, from building factories,
workshops,
houses for themselves, from acquiring land; nothing - if only they have
a will
and begin" -- Gustav Landauer. |
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| sinister |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:21 pm |
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"Quirk" <quirk@syntac.net> wrote in message
news:1134433841.277632.77210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[quote:78d02f57db]sinister wrote:
We sould form local rent sharing clubs, not to waste our breath on the
hear-no-evil State, but to ACQUIRE LAND, and then employ an LVT-like
Rent Sharing mechanism to allocate it within the clubs.
That's a very interesting idea.
It's one of the principals in the model I call Venture Communism, but
it can certainly work on it's own as well.
http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=VentureCommunism
I had a similar thought---some kind
nonprofit organization, or maybe for-profit.
I say non-profit, I think the Rent-sharing Club should simply collect
the rent and split it up per-capita, and do nothing else. This prevents
an aristocracy of influence from building up around the rental
earnings.
That said, they should rent their holding to the highest bidder, even
if that bidder is not a member of the club.
It evolved to the point where
rent would be retained to the fullest degree possible, and used to buy up
more land. Then when enough land were purchased it would implement rent
sharing.
As I believe the rent should be simply split up among the members, I
propose the idea of selling Bonds at dutch auction, backed in the newly
acquired land inorder to grow.
Naturally, many members would use their Rent-sharing Dividend to buy
these bonds, but perhaps non-members would too, bidding down interest
rates and allowing to Club to grow at a rate potentially greater than
what it could by only retaining the rent and investing it, as a
land-backed bond would be a pretty low-risk investment.
Kind of like a virus of some sort.
Exactly. This is one of the central ideas in Anarchism; "Building the
new society in the shell of the old."
[/quote:78d02f57db]
I was thinking of GNU copyleft. If enough useful "intellectual property"
was tied up in copyleft, and if copyleft copyrights were actually enforced
(whereby non-copyleft code cannot use copylefted code, for many if not all
copyleft systems), the sphere available to liberty-infringing patents on
software would start to dwindle.
My thoughts are admittedly much vaguer than yours.
[quote:78d02f57db]Cheers.
[/quote:78d02f57db]
Cheers to you too!
[quote:78d02f57db]"Nothing can prevent the united consumers from working for
themselves with the aid of mutual credit, from building factories,
workshops,
houses for themselves, from acquiring land; nothing - if only they have
a will
and begin" -- Gustav Landauer.
[/quote:78d02f57db] |
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| Quirk |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:27 pm |
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Guest
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sinister wrote:
[quote:e69a568d31]"Quirk" <quirk@syntac.net> wrote in message
I was thinking of GNU copyleft.
[/quote:e69a568d31]
Very much so, copyleft employs intellectual property law to negate
intellectual property, venture communism employs property law and the
venture capital model to negate property and capitalism.
A rent-sharing club would not need to employ the entire venture
communist model inorder to work though, it could simply use the
acquisition-bond/rent-sharing aspects on it's own, and for land only
(not capital), and I've often thought of writing a special version of
the model for this purpose.
If the rent-sharing club wanted to incorporate those whose earnings
where near subsistence or lower, however, and thus had no cash with
which to acquire their share, it would need to employ the entire model,
so that labour could be used directly.
In either case, it is important that share price be set at the total
rent value of the club's property, multiplied by the (weighted) average
rate of acquisition-bond interest on all outstanding bonds, devided by
the number of currrent members. This way new membership would never
devalue shareholder value.
In the case of the entire model being employed, where the club (or
"venture commune") owns enterprises (Capital) as well as land, the
share would be denominated in hours based on the average wage paid by
the enterprises.
Cheers.
"For the free software community, commitment to anarchist production
may be a moral imperative"
-- Eban Moglan, General Counsel for the Free Software Foundation. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:17 pm |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:10:41 -0500, "sinister"
<sinister@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[quote:cf3cb25de1]"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:kFLmf.1297$kP5.933@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
MUST try harder
I don't see why we don't form local land tax clubs, which would advertise
talks very publically, attack motions to cut property taxes at the local
government meetings, etc.
The region I live in (Wash DC metro area) really needs such a club. The
claim that property tax payers are bearing some kind of cross is dogma here.
[/quote:cf3cb25de1]
I have had some experience with this sort of thing. At public
meetings, you will probably be shouted down by indignant landowners.
It takes a lot of composure to keep talking and stay on message when
you are being heckled. If you write letters to your local newspapers,
they will soon just stop printing yours, but not the other side's.
-- Roy L |
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| sinister |
| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:21 am |
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<royls@telus.net> wrote in message
news:439e494e.57914020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca.gnresend...
[quote:e5e7bbfa5d]On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:10:41 -0500, "sinister"
sinister@nospam.invalid> wrote:
"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:kFLmf.1297$kP5.933@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
MUST try harder
I don't see why we don't form local land tax clubs, which would advertise
talks very publically, attack motions to cut property taxes at the local
government meetings, etc.
The region I live in (Wash DC metro area) really needs such a club. The
claim that property tax payers are bearing some kind of cross is dogma
here.
I have had some experience with this sort of thing. At public
meetings, you will probably be shouted down by indignant landowners.
It takes a lot of composure to keep talking and stay on message when
you are being heckled. If you write letters to your local newspapers,
they will soon just stop printing yours, but not the other side's.
[/quote:e5e7bbfa5d]
Are you saying it's tough going (granted), or that those methods aren't
productive?
I thought of going to a county meeting and asking the board members what
they thought cutting property taxes did to valuations. I'm guessing not all
of them would get it right.
[quote:e5e7bbfa5d]
-- Roy L[/quote:e5e7bbfa5d] |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:46 pm |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:21:30 -0500, "sinister"
<sinister@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[quote:9c163719eb]royls@telus.net> wrote in message
news:439e494e.57914020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca.gnresend...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:10:41 -0500, "sinister"
sinister@nospam.invalid> wrote:
"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:kFLmf.1297$kP5.933@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
MUST try harder
I don't see why we don't form local land tax clubs, which would advertise
talks very publically, attack motions to cut property taxes at the local
government meetings, etc.
The region I live in (Wash DC metro area) really needs such a club. The
claim that property tax payers are bearing some kind of cross is dogma
here.
I have had some experience with this sort of thing. At public
meetings, you will probably be shouted down by indignant landowners.
It takes a lot of composure to keep talking and stay on message when
you are being heckled. If you write letters to your local newspapers,
they will soon just stop printing yours, but not the other side's.
Are you saying it's tough going (granted), or that those methods aren't
productive?
[/quote:9c163719eb]
It's hard to say, but it sure doesn't _feel_ productive. IMO the run
of people who show up to public meetings are so far behind the
learning curve, it's almost pointless talking to them. Especially
when most of them would need a couple of years of economics classes to
even understand what you are saying, but it takes about five seconds
to understand a shout of, "Stop going after the property owner!"
[quote:9c163719eb]I thought of going to a county meeting and asking the board members what
they thought cutting property taxes did to valuations. I'm guessing not all
of them would get it right.
[/quote:9c163719eb]
I'm sure of it. And if you asked what it did to total housing costs,
it's quite likely every single one of them would get it wrong.
-- Roy L |
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| sinister |
| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:30 am |
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Guest
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"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:kFLmf.1297$kP5.933@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
[quote:49afe4f815]MUST try harder
[/quote:49afe4f815]
[snip]
Another thought I had---make presentations to anti-sweatshop university
groups. Key point: those offering jobs at third world factories aren't the
problem, but rather the land ownership system that gives the workers no
other choice. |
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