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Science Forum Index » Philosophy Forum » Everything and Nothing
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| Simple Simon |
 Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:16 pm |
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Guest
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Hi Folks, and Merry Christmas! You seem like a very diverse group of
intelligent and thoughtful people. I came up with an idea a few years
ago, while on a long drive through Montana. It has to do with the origin
of the "Big Bang" and certain phenomena for which there are still no
complete explainations (gravity).
Although I have thought this idea through, and have been amazed at
how this simple model seems to work, I won't have much concern with
trying to convince anyone of it's validity. Rather, in the true spirit
of Philosophy, as this group's name implies, I'll just give a short
outlne and ask for feedback. I presented this idea in detail to a
physics group some years ago. It seems everyone there was more
interested in pushing their own "religions" than searching for answers
that work.
Please think this through and see if you come up with the same
answers I did...
Imagine that before the "Big Bang" there were two infinite universes-
one full of Everything (infinite matter) the other full of Nothing. For
this to be possible you have to consider things four dimensionally. If
there is a four dimentional boundary between them they may co-exist.
For a moment, please pretend that the previous statements are not
ideas, but fact. From this point of dual stability, what would be the
consequences of a small amount of mass squirting through the boundary
from the universe of Everything into the universe of Nothing? How does
this explain gravity? Hint- (infinity + x = ?) or (infinity - x = ?). |
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| Anti- Corporation |
| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:18 pm |
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Guest
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...and a river runs through it?
I would like to know about all this stuff about 'dimensions', is this
not a 'religion' in itself? I mean, I hear a lot about it, and, even
have an open mind, but, I have nver seen nor experienced another
dimension I am awae f. Well really I have, but, I have no proof of it
either. How does one go about arguing for another dimension without
sounding like a biblical prophet citing passages from strange book that
only they can interpret but the masses can not? how do you dare to
preach?
I liked the thing about gravity, so to am I facinated by this, and, do
believe t to be the key. If only I could find what actually inacted
inertia I would robablysell the secet to make a buck, if not some great
new powerful weapon that would burnbillions into an inferno of hell who
did not heed my word of 'truth'. Merry Christmas everybody. |
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| Frederick |
| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:16 pm |
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Guest
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?
Story time.
--
Best,
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
mmcneill@fuzzysys.com
http://www.fuzzysys.com
http://members.cox.net/fmmcneill/
*************************
Phrase of the week :
"There is no doubt that great revolutions of human scientific
thought will occur in the next century, and in the century after
that, and in thousands of centuries afterward. So which of our
current pet scientific dogmas will be among the first washed away
by new facts and sudden clarities?" -- Anonymous
 )))Snort!)
************************* |
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| Simple Simon |
| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:16 am |
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Guest
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Hey, that was cool ( the burning in Hell stuff).
I watched a show on PBS with Carl Sagan some time back where he tried
to explain 4 dimensional thinking along with other concepts. The model
he used was of imaginary 2 dimensional creatures, and how they would
perceive a 3 dimensional environment.
That Carl, going around imagining things that aren't real to make
sense of things that are. What a dumbass! |
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| Simple Simon |
| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 6:48 am |
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Guest
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You're contemplating many of the same things I did when I first put
this idea together. It would seem that both universes would have to be
inherently stable. My goal isn't to prove that this alternate universe
of Everything exists, but rather to imagine that it does
(hypothetically) and examine the ramifications of it's presence as
applied to known theory.
For gravity, look at the principals of hydraulics for a model.
Imagine a jar half filled with industrial hydraulic fluid and then
capped with a semi-rigid divider. Fill the rest with water and a marble
and seal it. If we could somehow pass the marble through the divider
from the top half to the bottom without compromising the seal, what
would happen? The divider would have to warp or flex to accommodate
foreign matter being taken from one side and added to the other. Because
the fluids themselves cannot be pressurized, the flexed divider exerts
pressure uniformly on any foreign object from all directions.
Now apply the idea that matter is taken from infinite mass (infinity
- x) and pushed into infinite space (infinity + x). Because we can't add
to or subtract from infinity, the barrier must flex. This creates
pressure from all directions on any object, resulting in a four
dimensional dent. Since pressure is directionally counter- radiant ( I
think I just made that word up), between any two objects there should be
less force. This variance will draw things together. |
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| fulcrum |
| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:52 am |
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Guest
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Let me start with the universe with no matter. Theoretically this
means that this is a universe with no energy, as mass does not make
much sense in a different dinmensional world in which the volume of
"solid" objects is related to density and the mass will depend on the
dimension along which it is measured, (actually it does even in ours,
except we can measure it as we have determined ways and means of
measuring it). No energy means no energy transfer and that means no
entropy change. This means that there are no processes. The complete
lack of energy transactions between different parts of this universe
means that there is actually no space - the dimensions of this
universe will be the planck length dimensions, except the dimensions
are curled up until an energy transaction is incited.
You can perhaps imagine this zero-size universe (or planck length size
to be precise) anywhere in the geometrical realm of the other universe
or outiside. Now coming to the other universe, if you say it has
infinite density with a four dimensional boundary, then I supoose you
are referring to the creation of the universe as we know it in its
early stages of birth. Basically, it was a very dense concentration of
all matter (or rather energy) and there was again, no process of
energy transfer spatially, until we came across this temporal boundary
you mentioned. The three dimensional universe we know is appended to
the time dimension as the fourth dimension - this being a boundary
(condition) means that there is matter (energy) transfer from one
universe in a process for the first time, only when a certain state is
reached as far as that time dimension is conmcerned...
So that explains the very first process in the universe - the Big bang
- a transfer of matter (energy) from a point of dense concentration
(of infinite density of matter in 3d space, in an infinitesimally
small time to a region of interaction.(which was the geometric (as
well as temporal) point of birth of the universe. So we now understand
how universes are composed and how they come into being.
Getting back to the entropy bit, If we have two universes with an
infinite entropy gradient between them, the process of energy exchange
will tend to increase the entropy of both the universes (Please read
Isaac Asimov "The Last Question" for inspiration and a regular
thermodynamics text to learn it...). So what this means is that
processes will start occuring in this universe with now finite energy,
which might culminate in perhaps matter, organized matter of some
sort, organized processes and finally life....
On the contrary, the infinite mass universe is rather difficult to
imagine, especially because of the fact that in all directions in the
universe, there must be an infinite density of matter...this would
already mean a state of maximum entropy - as there is thorough
uniformity in the universe. The universe would not see any further
interactions...
I remember a famous philosopher once said "I there were infinite stars
in the sky, you'd see one at every point in the sky, and there would
be no difference between day and night..."
Do let me know what you think abt this. It was quite interesting to
imagine all that. I also highly recommend "The elegant universe" by
Brian greens to anybody who wants to read up on different dimensions
and stuff...quirky, interesting and brilliant - ull understand it
easiest with that book, I think. If you have found better books, tell
me too.
Regards,
Rajesh aka Fulcrum
---------------------
Have an adequate day.
Found_Alive@webtv.net (Simple Simon) wrote in message news:<3085-3FEA4861-474@storefull-3191.bay.webtv.net>...
Quote: Hi Folks, and Merry Christmas! You seem like a very diverse group of
intelligent and thoughtful people. I came up with an idea a few years
ago, while on a long drive through Montana. It has to do with the origin
of the "Big Bang" and certain phenomena for which there are still no
complete explainations (gravity).
Although I have thought this idea through, and have been amazed at
how this simple model seems to work, I won't have much concern with
trying to convince anyone of it's validity. Rather, in the true spirit
of Philosophy, as this group's name implies, I'll just give a short
outlne and ask for feedback. I presented this idea in detail to a
physics group some years ago. It seems everyone there was more
interested in pushing their own "religions" than searching for answers
that work.
Please think this through and see if you come up with the same
answers I did...
Imagine that before the "Big Bang" there were two infinite universes-
one full of Everything (infinite matter) the other full of Nothing. For
this to be possible you have to consider things four dimensionally. If
there is a four dimentional boundary between them they may co-exist.
For a moment, please pretend that the previous statements are not
ideas, but fact. From this point of dual stability, what would be the
consequences of a small amount of mass squirting through the boundary
from the universe of Everything into the universe of Nothing? How does
this explain gravity? Hint- (infinity + x = ?) or (infinity - x = ?). |
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