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Francogrex...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:05 am
Guest
Hi, I would like to try out symbolic programming. I know maple,
mathematica and others are computer algebra system that let you do
that, but they are not primitive languages. I would like to write and
run a very simple program [something like expanding (x^2 + 3)^2/(x)]
but written in a language like C or C++ or other. Do you know which is
the best and easiest programming language for symbolic computation?
And is there like a book which teaches symbolic math programming (I
know there are books who present general algorithms like the book of
Symbolic Integration by Bronstein, but this is of little use to me
now, because it's not fully practical, I need something like symbolic
programming for dummies with all details). Thanks
rjf...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:08 am
Guest
On May 6, 11:05 am, Francogrex <fra... at (no spam) grex.org> wrote:
Quote:
Hi, I would like to try out symbolic programming. I know maple,
mathematica and others are computer algebra system that let you do
that, but they are not primitive languages. I would like to write and
run a very simple program [something like expanding (x^2 + 3)^2/(x)]
but written in a language like C or C++ or other. Do you know which is
the best and easiest programming language for symbolic computation?
And is there like a book which teaches symbolic math programming (I
know there are books who present general algorithms like the book of
Symbolic Integration by Bronstein, but this is of little use to me
now, because it's not fully practical, I need something like symbolic
programming for dummies with all details). Thanks

try Peter Norvig, Paradigms of AI Programming. The language is Lisp.
All the details are there, for a simple math simplifier.
Nasser Abbasi...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:16 pm
Guest
"Francogrex" <franco at (no spam) grex.org> wrote in message
news:7a27ff57-6ead-49bc-9e6a-cf27c5859063 at (no spam) l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hi, I would like to try out symbolic programming. I know maple,
mathematica and others are computer algebra system that let you do
that, but they are not primitive languages. I would like to write and
run a very simple program [something like expanding (x^2 + 3)^2/(x)]
but written in a language like C or C++ or other. Do you know which is
the best and easiest programming language for symbolic computation?
And is there like a book which teaches symbolic math programming (I
know there are books who present general algorithms like the book of
Symbolic Integration by Bronstein, but this is of little use to me
now, because it's not fully practical, I need something like symbolic
programming for dummies with all details). Thanks

You can check these 2 books:

Joel S. Cohen,
Computer Algebra and Symbolic Computation: Elementary Algorithms ISBN
1-56881-158-6

Keith O. Geddes; S. R Czapor; Geoger Labahn
Algorithms for Computer Algebra, ISBN 0-7923-9259-0

Nasser
Raymond Manzoni...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:32 pm
Guest
Francogrex a écrit :
....
Quote:
And is there like a book which teaches symbolic math programming (I
know there are books who present general algorithms like the book of
Symbolic Integration by Bronstein, but this is of little use to me
now, because it's not fully practical, I need something like symbolic
programming for dummies with all details). Thanks


A rather nice and complete book with exercices before Bronstein or
Geddes :
Joachim von zur Gathen and Jürgen Gerhard "Modern Computer Algebra"
http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Computer-Algebra-Joachim-Gathen/dp/0521826462

Hoping it helped,
Raymond
rjf...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:28 pm
Guest
While these other books are of interest generally, I think that if you
want to copy programs out of a book (or use the online versions) to
get you from ground zero to some working non-trivial program, the best
book is Norvig's.
RJF
Francogrex...
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:50 pm
Guest
On May 6, 8:08 pm, rjf <fate... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
try Peter Norvig, Paradigms of AI Programming. The language is Lisp.
All the details are there, for a simple math simplifier.

Thanks. I searched a little bit on the net yesterday and it seems it's
what I want. But I have a general question (to anyone who can answer):
I have never used lisp before (I used S+ for statistical programming
and C++ for general programming). Do you have any idea if it's
generally useful to learn lisp (beyond the advantage of symbolic)? Can
you do general programming in it, like C++ (or at least mathematical
programming like Fortran or S+)? I also read that it is rather a
"dead" language in the sense that it is not used anymore and probably
there is less (or no) support and development, so I'm afraid it would
be a waste of time and energy to learn it (would be like learning
latin). Anyway, I downloaded something called XLISP-PLUS and will try
to figure out what it is.
rjf...
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:26 am
Guest
On May 6, 11:50 pm, Francogrex <fra... at (no spam) grex.org> wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 8:08 pm, rjf <fate... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

try Peter Norvig, Paradigms of AI Programming. The language is Lisp.
All the details are there, for a simple math simplifier.

Thanks. I searched a little bit on the net yesterday and it seems it's
what I want. But I have a general question (to anyone who can answer):
I have never used lisp before (I used S+ for statistical programming
and C++ for general programming). Do you have any idea if it's
generally useful to learn lisp (beyond the advantage of symbolic)?

Yes, that's why Scheme, a dialect of lisp, is taught at a number of
high-ranking universities.

Quote:
Can
you do general programming in it, like C++ (or at least mathematical
programming like Fortran or S+)?
Yes, you can even do matrix calculations. See matlisp.


I also read that it is rather a
Quote:
"dead" language in the sense that it is not used anymore

There are many ignorant people who voice opinions on many things.
If you search for articles on computer language popularity, you will
find many articles, suggesting that such previously popular languages
like Pascal, Java, Perl, are dropping in some metric, while Lisp may
even be growing. However, for building a computer algebra system,
Lisp is certainly common: e.g. Reduce, Axiom/Scratchpad, Macsyma/
Maxima,
and a host of experimental systems.


Quote:
and probably
there is less (or no) support and development, so I'm afraid it would
be a waste of time and energy to learn it (would be like learning
latin).

It would not take long, and would probably be refreshing. Maybe like
Latin
except not taking so long...

See the vitality of comp.lang.lisp. See the association of lisp users.


Quote:
Anyway, I downloaded something called XLISP-PLUS and will try
to figure out what it is.

That is a lisp based on statistical packages. It is not full Common
Lisp
You can download several free ANSI standard
common lisps, which will be more likely to run Norvig's code without
any change.

Good luck.
Francogrex...
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:50 am
Guest
On May 7, 4:26 pm, rjf <fate... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
There are many ignorant people who voice opinions on many things.
If you search for articles on computer language popularity, you will
find many articles, suggesting that such previously popular languages
like Pascal, Java, Perl,  are dropping in some metric, whileLispmay
even be growing.  However, for building a computer algebra system,Lispis certainly common: e.g. Reduce, Axiom/Scratchpad, Macsyma/
Maxima,
and a host of experimental systems.

Hi, thanks for introducing me to Lisp. I read already several common-
lisp articles and have books from the library. I download common-lisp
software (or do they call them implementations? like the CLIPS and the
GNU CL) and I'm learning, I usually learn rather quickly and already
have translated some C++ and S+ codes (numerical) into Lisp, and it's
absolutely great, I really love the language and would invest more in
it. For symbolic I have tried out few things (still more to try and
learn), but I couldn't find the Norvig book, anyway I saw that he
published the codes (not the whole book of course) on his website so I
will read them from there. I also saw (by googling) that Richard
Fateman has a site with some lisp codes that simulate mathematica
(called mma) but I couldn't yet "compile them" using my GNU common-
lisp (GCL), actually I don't really know yet how to compile lisp files
into a program yet.
 
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