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Science Forum Index » Space Forum » THE RELIGION OF ISLAM
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| amisb65 |
 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:39 am |
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Guest
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I send you today a good article. It could be new and adds to your
knowledge.
The True Religion
By Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips
THE RELIGION OF ISLAM
The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about
Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is
not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was
named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism
after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a
tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the
Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name
represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the
total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam"
means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god
worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim",
The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of
total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new
religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh
century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final
form.
Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the
first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets
sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not
decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah
Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the
final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the
following:
"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour
upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-
Maa'idah 5:3)
"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah
(God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)
"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah
Aal'imraan 3:67)
Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses'
people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the
followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact,
Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ"
comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is,
Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name
"Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name
Esau.
For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet
Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his
followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to
surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he
warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination.
According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as
follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven".
THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM
Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the
essence of worship, the basic message of Allah's divine religion,
Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship
directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah.Since
everything other than Allah, the Creator of all things, is Allah's
creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from
the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator.
He is the only one deserving man's worship as it is only by His will
that prayers are answered. If man prays to a tree and his prayers are
answered, it was not the tree which answered his prayers but Allah who
allowed the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say,
"That is obvious," however, to tree-worshippers it might not be.
Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna, to Saint Christopher,
or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad, are not answered by them but are
answered by Allah. Jesus did nottell his followers to worship him but
to worship Allah. As the Qur'aan states:
"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to
men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory
to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-
Maa'idah- 5:116)
Nor did he worship himself when he worshipped but rather he worshipped
Allah. This basic principle is enshrined in the opening chapter of the
Qur'aan, known as Soorah Al-Faatihah, verse 4:
"You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help".
Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah also
said:
"And your Lord says:"Call on Me and I will answer
your(prayer)."(Soorsh Mu'min 40:60)
it is worth noting that the basic message of Islam is that Allah and
His creation are distinctly different entities. Neither is Allah His
creation or a part of it, nor is His creation Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but, man's worship of creation instead of the
Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance of this concept. It is
the belief that the essence of Allah is everywhere in His creation or
that His divine being is or was present in some aspects of His
creation, which has provided justification for the worship of creation
though such worship maybecalled the worship of Allah through his
creation. How ever, the message of Islam as brought by the prophets of
Allah is to worship only Allah and to avoid the worship of his
creation either directly or indirectly. In the Our'aan Allah
clearlystates:
"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet,(with the
command) worship meand avoid false gods " (Soorsh Al-Nahl 16:36)
When the idol worshipper is questioned as to why he or she bows down
to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not
actually worshipping the stone image, but Allah who is present within
it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for Allah's
essence and is not in itself Allah! One who has accepted the concept
of the presence of God's being within His creation in any way will be
obliged to accept this argument of idolatry. Whereas, one who
understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would
never concede to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized. Those who
have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often
based their claims on the mistaken belief that Allah is present in
man. They merely had to assert that although Allah according to their
false beliefs, is in all of us, He is more present in them than in the
rest of us. Hence, they claim, we should submit our will to them and
worship them as they are either God in person or God concentrated
within the person.
Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their
passing have found fertile ground among those who accept the false
belief of God's presence in man. One who has grasped the basic message
of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another
human being under any circumstances. God's religion in essence is a
clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-
worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
"Laa Elaaha lllallaah" (There is no god but Allah)
Its repetition automatically brings one within the fold of Islam and
sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise.
Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one
who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief)
will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-
Bukhaaree and Muslim).
It consists in the submission to Allah as one God, yielding to Him by
obeying His commandments, and the denial of polytheism and
polytheists.
THE MESSAGE OF FALSE RELIGION
There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements
in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true
path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in
fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is
to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the
various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central
object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False
religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah.
They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were
Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's
imagination.
Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is
that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False
religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the
creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited
his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers
today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!
Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles
to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he
suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today
most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to
be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his
likeness.
By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false
religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin
clear. As God said in the Our'aan:
That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your
forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority:
The command belongs only to Allah:
He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right
religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)
It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it
matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions
teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is
the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very
purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as
Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:
"I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah
Zaareeyaat 51:56)
Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of
idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of
idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion,
but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:
"Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but
He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He
wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)
THE UNIVERSALITY OF ISLAM
Since the consequences of false religion are so grave, the true
religion of Allah must be universally understandable and attainable,
not confined to any people, place or time. There can not be conditions
like baptism, belief in a man, as a saviour etc., for a believer to
enter paradise. Within the central principle of Islam and in its
definition, (the surrender of one's will to God) lies the roots of
lslam's universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that Allah
is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to Allah,
he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise.
Thus, anyone at anytime in the most remote region of the world can
become a Muslim, a follower of God's religion, Islam, by merely
rejecting the worship of creation and by turning to Allah (God) alone-
It should be noted however, that the recognition of and submission to
Allah requires that one chooses between right and wrong and such a
choice implies accountability. Man will be held responsible for his
choices, and, as such, he should try his utmost to do good and avoid
evil. The ultimate good being the worship of Allah alone and the
ultimate evil being the worship of His creation along with or instead
of Allah. This fact is expressed in the final revelation as follows:
"Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures),
the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last
day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their
Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah
2:62).
If only they had stood by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation
that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed
happiness from every side. There Is from among them a party on the
right course; but many of them follow a course that Is evil.". (Soorah
Al-.Maa'idah 5:66)
RECOGNITION OF ALLAH
The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to
believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and
cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all
have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation
teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on
their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.
In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He
created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into
existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To
which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'
Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is
their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was
In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily
we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You
Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to
worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case
you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners
(With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy
us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural
belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called
in Arabic the "Fitrah".
If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way,
but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or
unseen.
The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in
the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH)
also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his
parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal
gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born
mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put
in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is
his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their
own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his
life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which
the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and
Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion.
Throughout people's lives from childhood until the time they die,
signs are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own
souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah).
If the people are honest with themselves, reject their false gods and
seek Allah, the way will be made easy for them but if they continually
reject Allah's signs and continue to worship creation, the more
difficult it will be for them to escape. For example, in the South
Eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a
primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their main idol Skwatch,
representing the supreme God of all creation. The homage to the God,
and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his
Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog walked into the
hut, The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift its hind leg
and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of
the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol
could not be the Lordof the universe. Allah must be elsewhere. he now
had a choice to act on his knowledge and seek Allah, or to dishonestly
go along with the false beliefs of his tribe. As strange as it may
seem, that was a sign from Allah for that young man. It contained
within it divine guidance that what he was worshipping was false.
Prophets were sent, as was earlier mentioned, to every nation and
tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn
inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in
the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of
the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which
point out right and wrong. For example, the ten commandments of the
Torah, their confirmation in the Gospels and the existence of laws
against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies. Consequently,
every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its
acceptance of the religion of Islam; the total submission to the will
of Allah.
We pray to Allah, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which
He has guided us, and to bestow on us a blessing from Him, He is
indeed the Most Merciful. Praise and gratitude be to Allah,the Lord of
the worlds, and peace and blessings be on prophet Muhammed, his
Family, his companions, and those who rightly follow them.
For more information about Islam : www.imanway1.com
please do not reply this message contact me at dawaa2islam@gmail.com |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:41 pm |
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The first thing you need to know is that you are never upset for the
reason you think.
That's because you are constantly trying to justify your thoughts.
You are constantly trying to make them true.
This makes anyone who disagrees with your thoughts your enemy.
They must be an enemy so, that your anger is justified. Your attacks
warranted.
You do not realize how much you have misused everything God has given
you when you do this by assigning this role to the things in the
Universe God made for you.
You have blasphemed against God's creations only to defend an ancient
thought system that has hurt you, and that you really no longer can
have, if you really want to understand the thoughts for God that are
possible within you.
You have to be willing to let all this garbage go Amis. You really do
and surrender to the Love that IS God..
Nothing real can be threatened
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.
If you are not at peace, if you cannot accept with joy the universe
the way God made it - including everything in it - then you are not
thinking thoughts WITH God - but against God - and that's wrong.
Give it up. Be at peace. Leave us the fuck alone! lol. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:57 pm |
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Here's another one..
Reality is never frightening. It is impossible that it could upset
you. Reality brings only perfect peacer. When you are upset, it is
always because you have replaced reality with illusions you made up.
The illusions are upsetting because you have given them reality, and
thus regard reality as an illusion. Nothing in God's creation is
affected in any wy by this confusion of yours. So, you are always
upset by nothing.
As you look around you, you condemn the world you see. You call this
seeing. you hold the past against everyone and everything, making
them all your enemies. When you have forgiven yourself and remembered
who you really are IN God, you will bless everyone and everything you
see. There will be no past, and therefore, no enemies. And you will
look with love on all that you failed to see before.
You see only your own thoughts, and your mind is preoccupied with the
past. What then can you see as it truly is IN God? Let yourself
remember that you look on the past to prevent the present from dawning
on your mind. Let yourself understand that you are trying to use tie
against God and his creations. Let yourself learn to give the past
away, realizing that in so doing you are giving up nothing, except
idle insane thoughts you think AGAINST God and his creation.
if you see nothing as it is now, it can truly be said that you see
nothing. you can see only what is now. The choice is not whether to
see the past or present; the choice is merely whether to see or not.
What you have chosen to see has cost you true vision WITH God. So,
now, choose again, that you may see truly.
You have no private thoughts. Yet it is only private thoughts of
which you are aware. What can those thoughts mean? They do not
really exist, and so they mean nothing in truth. Yet your mind is
part of creation and part of its Creator. Would you not rather join
the thinking of the universe than to obscure all the thoughts that are
really yours with meaningless and bogus private thoughts?
Of course you would.
So, do it now. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:30 pm |
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The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
It should be apparent to you by now that your mind offers you only a
temporary sense of existence. You are born into this life and you
will die to this life according to your thoughts. Against this sense
of temporary existence spirit offers you the knowledge of permanence
and unshakable being. No one who has truly experienced the revelation
of this spiritual knowledge can ever truly believe in this life
again. How can the meager offering of the mind prevail against what
is?
How can you tell mind from spirit? You will hear the Voice for God.
If you cannot hear the Voice for God, it is because you have chosen
not to listen. That you DO listen to the voice of your mind is
demonstrated by your attitudes, feelings and behavior. This is what
you are fighting for and what you seek to save. Your mind is filled
with schemes to save the face of your misbegotten thoughts and you do
not see the face of God. Where you choose to look is up to you. You
can change your mind. When your mood tells you that you have chosen
wrongly, and this is so whenever you are not joyous, then KNOW THIS
NEED NOT BE. In every case whenver you are not joyous, you have
thought wrongly about some brother God created, and are perceiving
images you mind makes in the dark away from God.
Search sincerely for what you have done and left undone accordingly,
and then change your mind to think with God's thoughts. This may seem
hard to do, but it is much easier than trying to think against it.
That's because your mind is one with God's. Denying this andthinking
otherwise holds your dark thoughts together, but it splits your mind
away from God.
As a loving brother I am deeply concerned with your mind, and I urge
you to look at yourself and at your brothers, and see in everything
the glorious creations of a glorious Father.
When you are sad,know this need not be. Depression comes from a sense
of being deprived of something you want and do not have. Remember
that you are deprived of nothing except by your own dark decisions
apart from God. Realize this and decide otherwise.
When you are anxious, realize that anxiety cceoms from capriciousness
of the dark thoughts you think apart from God, and know this need not
be. You can be as vigilant against your dark thoughts as you are now
vigilant for them.
When you feel guilty, remember that your darkened mind has indeed
violated the laws of God, but your Spirit mind that is with God
always, has not. Leave these 'sins' to God's mercy,. But until you
change your mind about those whom your dark thoughts have hurt, God
cannot release you. While you feel guilty your dark mind is in
command, because only dark thoughts can feel guilt. This nee not
be. Choose again a different thought.
Watch your mind for the temptations of darkened thought apart from
God, and do no be decieved. It offers you nothing in truth. When you
have given up this voluntary dis-spiriting, you can see how your mind
can focus and rise up above fatique and heal. You are not yet
sufficiently vigilant against the demands of darkness within your own
mind. This need not be.
Get into the habit of engaging WITH God and His creations. This is
easily done if you refuse to let your mind slip away into darkness.
The problem is not one of concentration; it is the belief that no one;
including yourself, is worth the consistent effort. Side with God and
all his creations consistently against the deception of the dark
thoughts in your own mind and do not permit any shabby belief to pull
you away from the thoughts you share with God. The disheartened are
useless to themselves and to God, but only false dark thoughts can BE
disheartened. When this is so, realize it need not be.
Have you reaally considered how many opportunities you have had to
gladden yourself and how many of them you have refused? There is no
limit to the power of God or to you as a Son of God, but you can limit
God's expression of devine love THROUGH you as you choose. Your mind
can unite with God and shine all the darkness away, releasing the
strength of God in all you say and do. Do not settle for anything
less than this and refuse to accept anything but this as your goal.
Watch your mind carefully for any beliefs that hinder this
accomplishment and step away from them. Judge how well you have done
this by your own feelings, for this is the one right use of judgment.
Judgment like any defense can be used to attack or protect, to hurt or
to heal. Darkness within should be brought to judgment andfound
wanting there. Without your own allegience to the darkness within
your own heart and mind, without your protection and love, darkness
cannot exist within you. Let darkness be judged truly and you must
withdraw you allegience, protection and love from the darkness within
you.
In this way you become a mirror of truth, in which God Himself shines
in perfect light through you and all of your action and thoughts. Do
not look on the darkness within because you know it is not true. The
darkness in you cannot prevent God from shining on you, but it can
prevent God from shining through you. |
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| kT |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:26 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 21, 12:02 am, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
Quote: Willie.Moo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:101ceabb-2c3f-44b3-b65a-9d63a5fe80ec@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
SNIP!
I have problems with this thread:
1) The newsgroup topic here is sci.space.policy.
2) Any religion is based upon some concept of a 'supernatural.'
However, 'supernatural' does not exist. Pathology exists.
No, the supernatural is that which we don't know yet, and that which
we don't know yet most definitely exists. It's that which we can't
possibly ever know that some people have a problem with.
Quote: Anyone can Believe all he likes, it won't lift his feet one
cm off the ground. *This* is not how to get up into space,
into the universe out there.
The problem with 'god' is like the problem with life, the universe and
everything, the god believers haven't properly asked a question.
They look at the result (the cosmos) and think questions are
inappropriate. |
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| Martha Adams |
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:02 am |
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Guest
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<Willie.Mookie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:101ceabb-2c3f-44b3-b65a-9d63a5fe80ec@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
<SNIP!>
I have problems with this thread:
1) The newsgroup topic here is sci.space.policy.
2) Any religion is based upon some concept of a 'supernatural.'
However, 'supernatural' does not exist. Pathology exists.
Anyone can Believe all he likes, it won't lift his feet one
cm off the ground. *This* is not how to get up into space,
into the universe out there.
Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Apr 21] |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:14 pm |
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On Apr 21, 3:26 am, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 21, 12:02 am, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
Willie.Moo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:101ceabb-2c3f-44b3-b65a-9d63a5fe80ec@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
SNIP!
I have problems with this thread:
1) The newsgroup topic here is sci.space.policy.
2) Any religion is based upon some concept of a 'supernatural.'
However, 'supernatural' does not exist. Pathology exists.
No, the supernatural is that which we don't know yet, and that which
we don't know yet most definitely exists. It's that which we can't
possibly ever know that some people have a problem with.
Anyone can Believe all he likes, it won't lift his feet one
cm off the ground. *This* is not how to get up into space,
into the universe out there.
The problem with 'god' is like the problem with life, the universe and
everything, the god believers haven't properly asked a question.
They look at the result (the cosmos) and think questions are
inappropriate.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you are speaking with someone who believes in God, you must
understand the history of the concept and the reason it persists in
many people's minds. Now, Martha read what I said straight, and
objects to the first part - the existence of God.
Yet, would she so forcefully reject the existence of Santa? Think
about it. Santa DOES exist - as a concept. So does God. The only
thing we have to ask ourselves, is it a useful concept? or is it a
destructive one? What is the utility of this idea? what are its
dangers.
Now, just as I can talk about Santa sensibly, because the concept
exists and is well established in consensual reality, I can talk
sensibly about God - because the concept of God certainly exists - and
by accepting that concept AS IT EXISTS IN OUR SHARE CONSENSUAL REALITY
- we can find and agree upon - all of us - what aspects of the God
concept are useful and ennobling, and what aspects of the God concept
are destructive and best forgotten.
So, in examining this concept we can go down the following list of
questions;
1) does God in fact exist for you.
for martha the answer is no. She is off the hook, she need not go
further. For folks like Amis, he must answer the second question...
2) is God perfect?
The consensual reality among believers is overwhelmingly YES. God is
perfect.
3) does God make mistakes?
Again overwhelmingly the answer is NO, God does not make mistakes
4) Is there anything you can do to fool God?
Again, overwhelmingly - no, its a fool's errand to even think so.
5) Did God make you?
Again most would say YES
6) Did God make you perfect?
Here we run into the concept of original sin.. and the first
illogical point shared by most religions.and the basis of much fear
and strife.
At the end of the day, all argumentation MUST conclude, based on the
earlier responses - YES, God made me perfect.
7) Is there anything you can do to render yourself imperfect in the
sight of God?
Here we run into similar concepts of sin and so forth - but it again
is illogical in the light of the earlier admissions. If God made you,
and God made you perfect,then nothing you can do can make you
imperfect. To say that you could render a creation of God imperfect is
the height of hubris. OBVIOUSLY given the earlier points NOTHING you
can do can render you imperfect in the sight of God.
8) Is the world perfect?
Here we run into a whole host of nonsense - but if you truly believe
the first 5 precepts, the world must be perfect too.
So here you have a choice....
A) God doesn't exist and we're on our own - in this case its up to us
to make the world a better place - as good a place as we can without
any help cause we're on our own.
or
B) The universe that we think we see is a mistaken impression of the
way the world really is, and any anger, fear jealousy hatred, is a
misperception of what God really made. In this case we must change
out mind to see the rightness and holiness and beauty and perfection
in the world God made - and not take any action at all until we do.
.
In any case, the Truth is True and is doesn't need our defense to be
true. Only illusions can fight one another - but the fight again is a
fool's errand since both ARE illusions.
This comes very close to a scientific appreciation of reality as it is
- without a lot of struggle and strife.
And leads all - believers and non-believers alike - to a common set of
BEHAVIOR that AVOIDS CONFLICT OVER THIS IDEA.
In any event it is time for science to stand up and take its rightful
place in world history, and make it its goal to subsume the ideas
emotions and thoughts surrounding religion - not by ignoring them or
labelling them bad - but merely force them into a non-destructive mold
that all benefit from - this logical pathway is a first attempt at
this - and well, quite frankly, I think if all scientists and a large
group of non-scientists can all agree that whatever the God concept
is, it should at least promote peace prosperity and good will among
all peoples of the world - God's creations according to the myth -
then we've taken one small step forward as a species.
.
Most people would agree that God would not like Him to be the cause of
discord among his creations. If one chooses discord, then one is
choosing wrongly - choose again until peace is your choice.
We should also point out whenever possible, that Islamic extremists
are doing more to harm Islam in the future by terror acts than any
immediate benefit they think they are gaining. According to legend,
God made the world - who are you use violence and hatred to destroy a
part of it? Surrender to the Will of God, if you believe such things,
and learn to see the perfection in His creations.
As I said, if you don't believe, you are spare this little detour into
analysis of a shared thought system. |
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| Back to top |
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| amisb65 |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:01 am |
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Guest
|
On 23 ÃÈÑíá, 02:14, Willie.Moo...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote: On Apr 21, 3:26 am, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
On Apr 21, 12:02 am, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
Willie.Moo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:101ceabb-2c3f-44b3-b65a-9d63a5fe80ec@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
SNIP!
I have problems with this thread:
1) The newsgroup topic here is sci.space.policy.
2) Any religion is based upon some concept of a 'supernatural.'
However, 'supernatural' does not exist. Pathology exists.
No, the supernatural is that which we don't know yet, and that which
we don't know yet most definitely exists. It's that which we can't
possibly ever know that some people have a problem with.
Anyone can Believe all he likes, it won't lift his feet one
cm off the ground. *This* is not how to get up into space,
into the universe out there.
The problem with 'god' is like the problem with life, the universe and
everything, the god believers haven't properly asked a question.
They look at the result (the cosmos) and think questions are
inappropriate.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you are speaking with someone who believes in God, you must
understand the history of the concept and the reason it persists in
many people's minds. Now, Martha read what I said straight, and
objects to the first part - the existence of God.
Yet, would she so forcefully reject the existence of Santa? Think
about it. Santa DOES exist - as a concept. So does God. The only
thing we have to ask ourselves, is it a useful concept? or is it a
destructive one? What is the utility of this idea? what are its
dangers.
Now, just as I can talk about Santa sensibly, because the concept
exists and is well established in consensual reality, I can talk
sensibly about God - because the concept of God certainly exists - and
by accepting that concept AS IT EXISTS IN OUR SHARE CONSENSUAL REALITY
- we can find and agree upon - all of us - what aspects of the God
concept are useful and ennobling, and what aspects of the God concept
are destructive and best forgotten.
So, in examining this concept we can go down the following list of
questions;
1) does God in fact exist for you.
for martha the answer is no. She is off the hook, she need not go
further. For folks like Amis, he must answer the second question...
2) is God perfect?
The consensual reality among believers is overwhelmingly YES. God is
perfect.
3) does God make mistakes?
Again overwhelmingly the answer is NO, God does not make mistakes
4) Is there anything you can do to fool God?
Again, overwhelmingly - no, its a fool's errand to even think so.
5) Did God make you?
Again most would say YES
6) Did God make you perfect?
Here we run into the concept of original sin.. and the first
illogical point shared by most religions.and the basis of much fear
and strife.
At the end of the day, all argumentation MUST conclude, based on the
earlier responses - YES, God made me perfect.
7) Is there anything you can do to render yourself imperfect in the
sight of God?
Here we run into similar concepts of sin and so forth - but it again
is illogical in the light of the earlier admissions. If God made you,
and God made you perfect,then nothing you can do can make you
imperfect. To say that you could render a creation of God imperfect is
the height of hubris. OBVIOUSLY given the earlier points NOTHING you
can do can render you imperfect in the sight of God.
8) Is the world perfect?
Here we run into a whole host of nonsense - but if you truly believe
the first 5 precepts, the world must be perfect too.
So here you have a choice....
A) God doesn't exist and we're on our own - in this case its up to us
to make the world a better place - as good a place as we can without
any help cause we're on our own.
or
B) The universe that we think we see is a mistaken impression of the
way the world really is, and any anger, fear jealousy hatred, is a
misperception of what God really made. In this case we must change
out mind to see the rightness and holiness and beauty and perfection
in the world God made - and not take any action at all until we do.
.
In any case, the Truth is True and is doesn't need our defense to be
true. Only illusions can fight one another - but the fight again is a
fool's errand since both ARE illusions.
This comes very close to a scientific appreciation of reality as it is
- without a lot of struggle and strife.
And leads all - believers and non-believers alike - to a common set of
BEHAVIOR that AVOIDS CONFLICT OVER THIS IDEA.
In any event it is time for science to stand up and take its rightful
place in world history, and make it its goal to subsume the ideas
emotions and thoughts surrounding religion - not by ignoring them or
labelling them bad - but merely force them into a non-destructive mold
that all benefit from - this logical pathway is a first attempt at
this - and well, quite frankly, I think if all scientists and a large
group of non-scientists can all agree that whatever the God concept
is, it should at least promote peace prosperity and good will among
all peoples of the world - God's creations according to the myth -
then we've taken one small step forward as a species.
.
Most people would agree that God would not like Him to be the cause of
discord among his creations. If one chooses discord, then one is
choosing wrongly - choose again until peace is your choice.
We should also point out whenever possible, that Islamic extremists
are doing more to harm Islam in the future by terror acts than any
immediate benefit they think they are gaining. According to legend,
God made the world - who are you use violence and hatred to destroy a
part of it? Surrender to the Will of God, if you believe such things,
and learn to see the perfection in His creations.
As I said, if you don't believe, you are spare this little detour into
analysis of a shared thought system.- ÅÎÝÇÁ ÇáäÕ ÇáãÞÊÈÓ -
- ÚÑÖ ÇáäÕ ÇáãÞÊÈÓ -
thank you for your comments, your letter is so interesting, I just
would like to clarify two points you mentioned by explaining the
opinion of Islam about them:
1- the original sin:
in Islam we don`t believe in the original sin, we believe that each
human is responsible for his own mistakes & no one carries the burden
of another, it`s unfair to accuse all humans of the mistake their
father Adam did, & that they are born with a sin, in the Quran (last
scripture revealed to humans (the scripture of Islam)) it says :
6-164 "Say: What! shall I seek a Lord other than Allah? And He is the
Lord of all things; and no soul earns (evil) but against itself, and
no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another; then to your
Lord is your return, so He will inform you of that in which you
differed."
also:
17-15 "Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and
whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray: nor can
the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise
until We raise a messenger."
& :
35-18 "And a burdened soul cannot bear the burden of another and if
one weighed down by burden should cry for (another to carry) its
burden, not aught of it shall be carried, even though he be near of
kin. You warn only those who fear their Lord in secret and keep up
prayer; and whoever purifies himself, he purifies himself only for
(the good of) his own soul; and to Allah is the eventual coming."
&:
39-7 "If you are ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient
above all need of you; and He does not like ungratefulness in His
servants; and if you are grateful, He likes it in you; and no bearer
of burden shall bear the burden of another; then to your Lord is your
return, then will He inform you of what you did; surely He is
Cognizant of what is in the breasts."
as for Adam`s sin, Allah (God) has already forgiven him , so it`s not
going on to next generations, as it says in the Quran :
2-35 "And We said: O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and
eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish and do not approach
this tree, for then you will be of the unjust."
2-36 "But the Satan made them both fall from it, and caused them to
depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth,
some of you being the enemies of others, and there is for you in the
earth an abode and a provision for a time."
2-37 "Then Adam received (some) words from his Lord, so He turned to
him mercifully; surely He is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful."
2-38 "We said: Go forth from this (state) all; so surely there will
come to you a guidance from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, no
fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve."
2-as for forcing other people to believe in Allah (God) or become
muslim:
this is totally untrue, I won`t explain it, the Quran will explain to
you :
2-256 "There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has
become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in
the Satan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest
handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."
&
3-20 "But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself
entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those
who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit
yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way;
and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the
message and Allah sees the servants."
&
13-40 "And We will either let you see part of what We threaten them
with or cause you to die, for only the delivery of the message is
(incumbent) on you, while calling (them) to account is Our (business)." |
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| BradGuth |
| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:50 am |
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Guest
|
On Apr 20, 10:02 pm, "Martha Adams" <mh...@verizon.net> wrote:
Quote: Willie.Moo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:101ceabb-2c3f-44b3-b65a-9d63a5fe80ec@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The Kingdom of Heaven IS You. What else BUT you did the Creator
create, and what else BUT you is His Kingdom? This is the whole
message of the Atonement - AT-ONE-ment; a message which in its
totality transcends the sum of its parts and totally different than
the teachings of any mind based religion.
SNIP!
I have problems with this thread:
1) The newsgroup topic here is sci.space.policy.
2) Any religion is based upon some concept of a 'supernatural.'
However, 'supernatural' does not exist. Pathology exists.
Anyone can Believe all he likes, it won't lift his feet one
cm off the ground. *This* is not how to get up into space,
into the universe out there.
Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Apr 21]
And you think our bipolar lord all-knowing Mook cares?
.. - Brad Guth |
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