gas gasoline vs electric car vehicle

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HarryHydro

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:21 pm

Guest

Hi Folks:
I was just pondering some numbers that looks like I'm making a
mistake:
Electic car cost vs gasoline cost.
Gas: 21mpg at 60mph (my jeep)
Gas weight about 7 pounds per gallon
That about 3 miles per pound of gas at 60mph. Is that right so far?
Thats about 20 pounds of gas at 60mph.
A gasoline engine uses about 1/2 pound per hp per hour, right?
So, this vehicle uses 40hp to go 60mph? Still sound right?
If this vehicle were electric and 93% efficient, it would use about
800 watts per hp/hr
Thats 32kw at 60mph.
At 14 cents per kw/hr, that would be about $4.48 of electric to go 60
miles!???!!!??
Is that right?
3 gallons of gas now costs over $10..
Electric starting to look good!
Until;
If you drive an hour, it would take over 133 amps at 240v to charge it
in one hour! That's more than my service to the whole house!
If you could drive for 8 hours, and charge it the remaining 16 hours
per day, thats going to be about 67 amps while charging. That's per
vehicle! I don't see power plants being capable of doing this any
time soon!
Also, this is a jeep, not an econobox.

Harry

Harry

Bret Cahill

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:31 am

Guest

Bob Eld

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:26 am

Guest

"HarryHydro" <harryhydro@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4d1ece1-95b8-4528-af32-e77d86e06524@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

Now you understand why electric cars are not everywhere and why they have
not taken over. Household services are simply not up to the task of charging
them and batteries do NOT exist that can take the charges necessary to
compete with gasoline, at least not yet.

For example, the coming Chevrolet Volt will only run about 40 miles on an
overnight household charge. Beyond that, it will use gasoline. It's power
level is about half of your above numbers.

Since battery technology simply does NOT exist to power cars at the hundreds
of horsepower levels we are use to, electric vehicles will probably not
become as popular as some think. Who killed the electric car, the EV-1? A
lot has been written about that, but the real answer is its lousy
performance vs. price and inconvenience.

My view is that biofuels are the answer to automotive transportation. They
run in conventional high performance ICE's giving us the power, convenience
and performance we are use to. Furthermore they have the potential to be
moderately priced, stable in price and not depend of foreign sources like
OPEC and other robber barons in the petroleum world. Clearly they have to be
developed and must do so in a way that does not compete with food. I view
that as more doable, at least in the short term, than battery and battery
charging technology to meet our needs.

Bret Cahill

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:18 pm

Guest

Quote:

No one will deny it's hard to beat the portability of liquid fuel.
Even if proposed super batteries have the same energy density as jet
fuel, no air frame designer wants 50 ton electric motors on 500 mph
airliners.

Algae diesel and algae ethanol will probably take over in 15 - 20
years.

The real problem is more immediate. ï¿½There is just no way to stop
spiraling liquid fuel costs in the next few years. ï¿½Any algae fuel
production will get dragged up in price by the world market price of
petroleum, same as drilling in ANWR or Florida.

We need some _interim_ solutions to prevent a humanitarian disaster.

Bret Cahill

I believe that everything should be on the table. We need Volts and Prius's
plus conservation measures, no doubt about it. We need nuclear power also.

However, I disagree with your 15 - 20 year estimate for algal oil. It may
take that long to get ramped up to 20 quads of energy

Then the cost of liquid fuel will just keep spiraling for 15 years.

Quote:

but I suspect we will
see it start to take hold long before that.

Day late dollar short for many people.

Quote:

If some forward looking energy
using company like railroads or UPS starts looking into growing its own
fuels as we discussed in another post, we could start seeing progress in a
couple of years.

Even the researchers are saying it will take longer than that.

Quote:

First would come some pilot operations to work out the details and kinks,
but, if successful, the thing will take off like a rocket because it is
simple, does not use a lot of infrastructure or capital equipment and can be
impelmented relatively cheaply.

Let's hope so.

Quote:

Furthermore, it can be easily scaled from a
pilot installation producing a few thousand gallons per year to mega
operations producing millions of gallons. There is no need to fund and build
a whole massive installation before it's proof of concept is known.

Yes producing algal oil for the general energy market will be dragged into
OPEC pricing because of the way markets work, at least in the short term.

We're looking at economic disaster.

Quote:

But, separation of algal oil from the general market by single companies
growing their own fuel will focus attention a lot more on what is possible..
Imagine the clamor if a UPS, for example, could produce it's own fuel for
under Two Dollars per gallon and what effect that would have on markets.

Nothing because they would be willing to sell and the Chinese would be
willing to pay a lot more.

Quote:

By
contrast, if the same quantity of algal fuel was dumped into the OPEC
stream, few would notice and the price would hardly change.

You mean the 30% increase/year would hardly change.

Bret Cahill

Bob Eld

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:31 pm

Guest

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:adf54e5b-ac5d-4c6a-9d05-85cc978b3576@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

Quote:

I believe that everything should be on the table. We need Volts and Prius's
plus conservation measures, no doubt about it. We need nuclear power also.

However, I disagree with your 15 - 20 year estimate for algal oil. It may
take that long to get ramped up to 20 quads of energy but I suspect we will
see it start to take hold long before that. If some forward looking energy
using company like railroads or UPS starts looking into growing its own
fuels as we discussed in another post, we could start seeing progress in a
couple of years.

First would come some pilot operations to work out the details and kinks,
but, if successful, the thing will take off like a rocket because it is
simple, does not use a lot of infrastructure or capital equipment and can be
impelmented relatively cheaply. Furthermore, it can be easily scaled from a
pilot installation producing a few thousand gallons per year to mega
operations producing millions of gallons. There is no need to fund and build
a whole massive installation before it's proof of concept is known.

Yes producing algal oil for the general energy market will be dragged into
OPEC pricing because of the way markets work, at least in the short term.
But, separation of algal oil from the general market by single companies
growing their own fuel will focus attention a lot more on what is possible.
Imagine the clamor if a UPS, for example, could produce it's own fuel for
under Two Dollars per gallon and what effect that would have on markets. By
contrast, if the same quantity of algal fuel was dumped into the OPEC
stream, few would notice and the price would hardly change.

Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:43 pm

gas gasoline? Is that some kind of a new fangled invention?
cuhulin

zzbunker@netscape.net

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 am

Guest

On Apr 28, 7:21 pm, HarryHydro <harryhy...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Electric has always been a good option.
Which is mostly where most of our stuff like computers, internet,
PV Cells, robots, lasers, holograms, fiber optics, and satellites
came from
for the GMers. Since they only give you the tax mileage,
rather than the true mileage.

Quote:

Until;
If you drive an hour, it would take over 133 amps at 240v to charge it
in one hour! That's more than my service to the whole house!
If you could drive for 8 hours, and charge it the remaining 16 hours
per day, thats going to be about 67 amps while charging. That's per
vehicle! I don't see power plants being capable of doing this any
time soon!
Also, this is a jeep, not an econobox.

Harry

Harry

habshi

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:15 pm

Guest

also the expensive battery a few thousand dollars has to be
replaced every two years

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