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Science Forum Index » Physics Forum » Big Bang Space Expansion
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| Guest |
 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:23 am |
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Atronomers observe the most distant objects to be 13 billion light
years away. The universe had to expand first to get those objects out
to that distance. I call it distance motion of spatial expansion. Then
we have to wait for light to traverse expanding space on its way back.
Because space is growing it is going to take longer.
Mitch Raemsch Falling light changes colour |
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| Rushtown |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:36 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 12, 2:23�pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: Atronomers observe the most distant objects to be 13 billion light
years away. The universe had to expand first to get those objects out
to that distance. I call it distance motion of spatial expansion. Then
we have to wait for light to traverse expanding space on its way back.
Because space is growing it is going to take longer.
Mitch Raemsch Falling light changes colour
Mitch, you know even less than I do. And I did not qualify to get
into high school physic, only "modern science", ie "how soap bubbles
work, etc.
But you see I am here only as a troll, and a very successful one. I
nonsense that sounds good enough to make the regulars here, especially
Uncle Al, feel they have to refute it.
You sound like your trying to do stuff like me, but your serious and
I'm just kidding. And your posts are very superficial like the above
post. They remind me of Donald Sutherland (as a pot smoking
professor) regaling a bunch of freshman about how atoms might be
little solar systems with inhabited planets. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:45 am |
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On Apr 12, 1:36Â pm, Rushtown <Rusht...@aol.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 12, 2:23�pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Atronomers observe the most distant objects to be 13 billion light
years away. The universe had to expand first to get those objects out
to that distance. I call it distance motion of spatial expansion. Then
we have to wait for light to traverse expanding space on its way back.
Because space is growing it is going to take longer.
Mitch Raemsch Falling light changes colour
Mitch, you know even less than I do. Â And I did not qualify to get
into high school physic, only "modern science", ie "how soap bubbles
work, etc.
But you see I am here only as a troll, and a very successful one. Â I
nonsense that sounds good enough to make the regulars here, especially
Uncle Al, feel they have to refute it.
You sound like your trying to do stuff like me, but your serious and
I'm just kidding. Â And your posts are very superficial like the above
post. Â They remind me of Donald Sutherland (as a pot smoking
professor) Â regaling a bunch of freshman about how atoms might be
little solar systems with inhabited planets.
I don't want to know what you know rush.
MItch Raemsch |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:29 pm |
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On Apr 12, 5:35 pm, SolomonW <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote:
Quote: In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then
we have to wait for light to traverse expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a space that is expanding?
It is red shifted or expanded as it moves through the expanding space
- expanding with it. This is identical to the red shift that it would
have if it were moving away (into preexisting space)
The galaxies are not moving away. Instead space is expanding. But the
effect of red shift must be identical or we do not have any means of
knowing where anything is at. In other words expanding light redshift
has to be exactly equivalent to motions red shift in order for us to
have any map.
I call this an Equivalence Principle: Expanding space red shifts light
in an identical way to a motion red shift that would come from
distance/speed.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008 |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:04 pm |
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On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net>
wrote:
Quote: Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008 |
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| Huang |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:42 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ? |
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| SolomonW |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:35 pm |
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Guest
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In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchgrav@hotmail.com says...
Quote: Then
we have to wait for light to traverse expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a space that is expanding? |
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| N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:52 pm |
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Guest
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Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <SolomonW@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
Quote: In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchgrav@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith |
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| N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) |
| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:46 pm |
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Guest
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Dear Huang:
"Huang" <huangxienchen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
dl...@cox.net
wrote:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding
space so slow that it takes 13 billion years
for the largest expansion shift.
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
It doesn't. Our clocks are running that much faster, compared to
"then".
Quote: How do you model that mathematically ?
He is a twice nodel laureate. Mathematics is foreign to him.
David A. Smith |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:27 am |
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On Apr 12, 8:42 pm, Huang <huangxienc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The model is Hyperpshere or 4 dimensional sphere. The universe is the
surface and the hyperpshere is expanding.
Mitch Raemsch |
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| Huang |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:57 pm |
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Guest
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On Apr 13, 4:41 pm, "Paul Mays" <Pa...@Mays.com> wrote:
Quote: "Huang" <huangxienc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?
Take one BB ( Quantum Point conversion) convert a portion of the QP
into Physical Particles of Anti Matter and Matter, run those into each other
causing short inflation phase, Note the remaining energy not converted
continues to exist as a Inverse Tensor between all Physical Particles and
you have an ever expanding universe expanding at an ever increasing rate
of expansion. To model mathematically you must make up stuff to fit what
is observed like UGC, Hubble Constant, Infinity and Multi-Dimensions and
the like... Its all much simpler than many conceive.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The only thing that makes any sense to me is modelling length
probabilistically. I just cant visualize spacebending very easily
using the standard methods. Using probability really simplifies things
IMO. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:25 pm |
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On Apr 13, 4:57 pm, Huang <huangxienc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: On Apr 13, 4:41 pm, "Paul Mays" <Pa...@Mays.com> wrote:
"Huang" <huangxienc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?
Take one BB ( Quantum Point conversion) convert a portion of the QP
into Physical Particles of Anti Matter and Matter, run those into each other
causing short inflation phase, Note the remaining energy not converted
continues to exist as a Inverse Tensor between all Physical Particles and
you have an ever expanding universe expanding at an ever increasing rate
of expansion. To model mathematically you must make up stuff to fit what
is observed like UGC, Hubble Constant, Infinity and Multi-Dimensions and
the like... Its all much simpler than many conceive.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The only thing that makes any sense to me is modelling length
probabilistically. I just cant visualize spacebending very easily
using the standard methods. Using probability really simplifies things
IMO.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Geometry. |
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| Paul Mays |
| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:41 pm |
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Guest
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"Huang" <huangxienchen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote: On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?
Take one BB ( Quantum Point conversion) convert a portion of the QP
into Physical Particles of Anti Matter and Matter, run those into each other
causing short inflation phase, Note the remaining energy not converted
continues to exist as a Inverse Tensor between all Physical Particles and
you have an ever expanding universe expanding at an ever increasing rate
of expansion. To model mathematically you must make up stuff to fit what
is observed like UGC, Hubble Constant, Infinity and Multi-Dimensions and
the like... Its all much simpler than many conceive. |
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| Huang |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:57 am |
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Guest
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On Apr 14, 3:23 am, "G. L. Bradford" <glbra...@insightbb.com> wrote:
Quote: "Paul Mays" <Pa...@Mays.com> wrote in message
news:c6vMj.5806$GF2.5420@fe087.usenetserver.com...
"Huang" <huangxienc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?
Take one BB ( Quantum Point conversion) convert a portion of the QP
into Physical Particles of Anti Matter and Matter, run those into each
other
causing short inflation phase, Note the remaining energy not converted
continues to exist as a Inverse Tensor between all Physical Particles and
you have an ever expanding universe expanding at an ever increasing rate
of expansion. To model mathematically you must make up stuff to fit what
is observed like UGC, Hubble Constant, Infinity and Multi-Dimensions and
the like... Its all much simpler than many conceive.
I prefer travelers shrinking local universes under 'constant boost'
(constant power) propulsion. Contracting a local universe, or any number of
local universes, gets them where they are going quicker (actually gets them
there, period). Of course when they decelerate -- slow down -- toward
arrival, the local universe expands up from the prior contraction of space
and time, as does their destination point in it (be it galaxy, solar system,
world, gas station....) expand up as well.
GLB- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Imagine a plane. Ordinarily, all of the points exist with probability
1.
But if you allow this probability to vary from place to place, then
the "expected length" must be either compressed or contracted.
You can model _everything_ this way, and even incorporate this view
with some dynamics without too much difficulty.
You can very easily:
[1] conclude that space is "indeterminately either continuous or
discrete".
[2] easily explain anomalous precession of perihelion of Mercury.
[3] should be able to reconcile Bohr and deBroigle atoms
[4] explains dark matter
[5] explains redshifting
[6] explains spacebending
etc etc etc |
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| G. L. Bradford |
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:23 am |
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Guest
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"Paul Mays" <PaulR@Mays.com> wrote in message
news:c6vMj.5806$GF2.5420@fe087.usenetserver.com...
Quote:
"Huang" <huangxienchen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aca9a9d3-ea28-4138-b299-9d1243e51d9d@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 12, 11:04 pm, mitchg...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Apr 12, 7:52 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net
wrote:
Dear SolomonW:
"SolomonW" <Solom...@DONTBOTHER.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.226c0e4f2371923c9896e7@news...
In article <42ce5007-da52-46d8-acb7-8eb716d9fd52@
1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, mitchg...@hotmail.com says...
Then we have to wait for light to traverse
expanding space on its way back.
What is the effect of light travelling in a
space that is expanding?
On the light? None.
David A. Smith
It gets stretched or red shifted by expanding space so slow that it
takes 13 billion years for the largest expansion shift.
Mitch Raemsch Twice Nobel Laureate 2008- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So - what makes it stretch in the first place ??
How do you model that mathematically ?
Take one BB ( Quantum Point conversion) convert a portion of the QP
into Physical Particles of Anti Matter and Matter, run those into each
other
causing short inflation phase, Note the remaining energy not converted
continues to exist as a Inverse Tensor between all Physical Particles and
you have an ever expanding universe expanding at an ever increasing rate
of expansion. To model mathematically you must make up stuff to fit what
is observed like UGC, Hubble Constant, Infinity and Multi-Dimensions and
the like... Its all much simpler than many conceive.
I prefer travelers shrinking local universes under 'constant boost'
(constant power) propulsion. Contracting a local universe, or any number of
local universes, gets them where they are going quicker (actually gets them
there, period). Of course when they decelerate -- slow down -- toward
arrival, the local universe expands up from the prior contraction of space
and time, as does their destination point in it (be it galaxy, solar system,
world, gas station....) expand up as well.
GLB |
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