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rAgAv
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:00 pm
Guest
Hello,

According to my current knowledge, the earth's magnetic field formed
due to the molten iron core that is spinning to create a magnetic
field. This magnetic field is also what is protecting us from harmful
bursts (solar plasma?) from the sun.

I don't understand one thing - why doesn't Mars have one?

Regards.
Skywise
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:09 pm
Guest
rAgAv <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1ffef2dc-a033-410e-96f4-
4f0136740470@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Hello,

According to my current knowledge, the earth's magnetic field formed
due to the molten iron core that is spinning to create a magnetic
field. This magnetic field is also what is protecting us from harmful
bursts (solar plasma?) from the sun.

I don't understand one thing - why doesn't Mars have one?

Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

Earth faces the same fate.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Landy
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:43 am
Guest
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:13u10vvtoo55d71@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
rAgAv <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in news:1ffef2dc-a033-410e-96f4-
4f0136740470@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

Hello,

According to my current knowledge, the earth's magnetic field formed
due to the molten iron core that is spinning to create a magnetic
field. This magnetic field is also what is protecting us from harmful
bursts (solar plasma?) from the sun.

I don't understand one thing - why doesn't Mars have one?

Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as Earth
and all................
cheers
Bill
Florian
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:23 am
Guest
Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:

Quote:
Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

Earth faces the same fate.

No so sure. Mars has an important volcanic activity which is at odd with
the hypothesis that it is a dead cold planet:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html

--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
rAgAv
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:11 am
Guest
According to a documentary that I watched, when earth was still in its
molten state, the heavy iron present in the spinning planet moved into
the center because of its heaviness and all the lighter substances
moved to the crust thus giving rise to the spinning iron core of the
earth. This spinning iron core gives rise to the magnetosphere.

So, just because Mars was a little bit smaller and was farther from
the sun, it cooled away faster thus leaving the process of formation
of the core at an immature status?

hmm...does Mars even have Iron in its composition? Anyway, where did
the iron in Earth come from?
John Popelish
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:54 am
Guest
Landy wrote:

Quote:
But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as Earth
and all................

Perhaps the impact that created the Moon added the iron core
of the impactor to Earth's core, causing it to be over an
sized core (relative to Mars and Venus, and especially to
the Moon, which has little), and also reheated the whole
interior, causing it to still be warmer, today, than it
otherwise would have been.

--
Regards,

John Popelish
Darwin123
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:57 am
Guest
On Mar 19, 4:22 pm, "Landy" <no...@nowhere.net> wrote:
Quote:
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.s...@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message

news:timberwoof.spam-30CDC8.09083319032008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...



In article <gfWdnSyiUOCYYn3anZ2dnUVZ_u6rn...@comcast.com>,
John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Why would that event suddenly leave the iron core in the
Earth and not leave one in the moon?

Because it had greater momentum and was less likely to vapourise.
cheers
Bill

The sentence doesn't quite make sense. Do you mean momentum in the
center of mass coordinate system of the two bodies? Furthermore, why
would greater momentum make it less likely to vaporize?
I saw a special describing the results of the simulation but
they didn't try to explain the results in simpler terms.
My first guess was that the two bodies merged for a short time
into one giant liquid body, and partially equilibrated. Then, there
would be forces that resembled buoyancy. Basically, the iron sunk to
the bottom of the merged body.
Wait, this doesn't work (?). The system would be far too
turbulent. The Froude number would be too big to allow stratification.
My second guess involves phase transitions. The joint body was
gas. The iron, having a higher vaporization temperature, condensed
into one massive liquid-body that sent all the momentum into the gas,
which then recondensed into the moon. The elements with the small
atomic number had larger vaporization point temperatures.
Calculations have long shown, since the 1700s, that an inelastic
collision between earth-like bodies would vaporize most of the
material of both bodies. Therefore, I would hope the simulation
included phase transitions in the dynamics. Did they?
The verbal description only said they simulated the bodies as
made of many small particles, and calculated separate trajectories.
There are google squared ways to do this.

What bothers me is that the computer simulation never means
anything by itself. It is the physical assumptions being made that
make the computer simulation meaningful. You can't go, "Run a computer
simulation," and believe everything that comes out. If you don't
confined the physics before the run, you can make the physics do
ANYTHING.
It would be so nice if scientific documentaries included
references to scientific papers, even if most of the audience don't
care. I am sure that few of the audience care about the actors,
writers and directors. Yet we have credits.
Timberwoof
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:08 am
Guest
In article <gfWdnSyiUOCYYn3anZ2dnUVZ_u6rnZ2d@comcast.com>,
John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:

Quote:
Landy wrote:

But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as Earth
and all................

Perhaps the impact that created the Moon added the iron core
of the impactor to Earth's core, causing it to be over an
sized core (relative to Mars and Venus, and especially to
the Moon, which has little), and also reheated the whole
interior, causing it to still be warmer, today, than it
otherwise would have been.

Not likely. The impactor, and thus its dense iron core, had a velocity
that took it away from the Earth again (albeit probably in lots of
little pieces). Why would that event suddenly leave the iron core in the
Earth and not leave one in the moon?

And that hypothesis just begs the question: Where did the impactor get
its iron core? Could not the proto-Earth have gotten one the same way?

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.
SBC Yahoo
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:33 am
Guest
"Florian" <auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net> wrote in message
news:1ie1tyx.kov73012akbdoN%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net...
Quote:
Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:

Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

Earth faces the same fate.

No so sure. Mars has an important volcanic activity which is at odd with
the hypothesis that it is a dead cold planet:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html

--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
- - - - -<> <> - - - - -

It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago. It has none, now,
today, this minute, and is therefore presumed deceased. The author of the
article is not, apparemntly, aware that a thousand million is a billion.
Must be the metric system, billion in metric is a thousand million.

"We went to the moon using the inch pound foot system, so why do we need to
change to the metric system? Those Europeans have not been to the moon."
1960's speach by US Senator that killed the "change to metric" movement in
the USA
- - - - -</> <\> - - - - -
Florian
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:04 pm
Guest
SBC Yahoo <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

Quote:
It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago. It has none, now,
today, this minute, and is therefore presumed deceased.

Do you seriously consider that the activity is now dead forever? That
would be ludicrous.

--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
Landy
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:20 pm
Guest
"SBC Yahoo" <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote in message
news:NfbEj.65622$Pv2.3747@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Quote:

"Florian" <auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net> wrote in message
news:1ie1tyx.kov73012akbdoN%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net...
Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:

Mars is cold. Being smaller, it cooled quicker. It's liquid
core froze eons ago thus shutting down its dynamo.

Earth faces the same fate.

No so sure. Mars has an important volcanic activity which is at odd with
the hypothesis that it is a dead cold planet:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMCPLM5NDF_index_0.html

--
Florian
"Toute vérité passe par trois phases. D'abord, elle est ridiculisée;
ensuite, elle rencontre une vive opposition avant d'être acceptée comme
une totale évidence" - Arthur Schopenhauer
- - - - -<> <> - - - - -
It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago.

Most planetary geologists would put the waning of volcanic activity on Mars
at ~2 Ga.
Don't know of a URL for this, but I know I've read it in several places (not
on the www).
cheers
Bill
Landy
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:22 pm
Guest
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-30CDC8.09083319032008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
Quote:
In article <gfWdnSyiUOCYYn3anZ2dnUVZ_u6rnZ2d@comcast.com>,
John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:

Landy wrote:

But then why does Venus not have one? Being roughly the same size as
Earth
and all................

Perhaps the impact that created the Moon added the iron core
of the impactor to Earth's core, causing it to be over an
sized core (relative to Mars and Venus, and especially to
the Moon, which has little), and also reheated the whole
interior, causing it to still be warmer, today, than it
otherwise would have been.

Not likely. The impactor, and thus its dense iron core, had a velocity
that took it away from the Earth again (albeit probably in lots of
little pieces). Why would that event suddenly leave the iron core in the
Earth and not leave one in the moon?

Because it had greater momentum and was less likely to vapourise.
cheers
Bill
Paul
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:10 pm
Guest
rAgAv wrote:
Quote:
According to a documentary that I watched, when earth was still in its
molten state, the heavy iron present in the spinning planet moved into
the center because of its heaviness and all the lighter substances
moved to the crust thus giving rise to the spinning iron core of the
earth. This spinning iron core gives rise to the magnetosphere.

So, just because Mars was a little bit smaller and was farther from
the sun, it cooled away faster thus leaving the process of formation
of the core at an immature status?

hmm...does Mars even have Iron in its composition? Anyway, where did
the iron in Earth come from?


Earth:
A likely scenario is that the two proto earths collided, the outer
layers of each vaporized,
went into orbit about the real earth, and later condensed into the moon.
The heavy metals, being heavy, sank and formed the earth's core.

Mars:
Mars is red because of rust.
Yes, Mars cooled faster because it is smaller. Compare surface areas.
Also, when solar systems are formed, the lighter stuff gets pushed
farther out
due to solar wind. The heavy stuff stays closer to the star.
That is why gas giants tend to be far from the sun and rocky planets
close to the star.

See if there is a library nearby or a school with a library nearby.
You may want to try to find a few modern books about solar system formation.
It is an interesting subject.
Skywise
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:30 pm
Guest
Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in
news:timberwoof.spam-30CDC8.09083319032008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net:

Quote:
Not likely. The impactor, and thus its dense iron core, had a velocity
that took it away from the Earth again (albeit probably in lots of
little pieces).

Huh? That's news to me. All the simulations I've seen show the
impactor remains recolliding with the earth after about half
and orbit. The impact reduced the impactors momentum below
escape velocity of the barycenter. This 2nd impact further
melted the earth and impactor thus allowing the two cores to
merge and other materials to stratify.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Timberwoof
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:17 pm
Guest
In article
<1ie2edr.1gqxazt1xwbh7eN%auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net>,
auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net (Florian) wrote:

Quote:
SBC Yahoo <atilla.the.hun@liberals.suck.net> wrote:

It had volcanic activity up to 100 million years ago. It has none, now,
today, this minute, and is therefore presumed deceased.

Do you seriously consider that the activity is now dead forever? That
would be ludicrous.

Why? Where would the energy come from to heat things up again?

(Of course, the final answer will come when we have enough seismometers
on Mars to measure its interior. Until then, it's informed hypothesis.)

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.
 
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