For once I am working on a project that is not related to philately.
My ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new contract
and it would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have therefore
decided to devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic -- that I
have had close to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto"
which I would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather
than leaving it in the original between quotes. However, I have been
unable so far to find a single word to use for Morocho. I know that
in Argentina morocho is normally used to describe "a man with black
hair and a dark complexion" which does nothing for me; too long, too
many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has failed me this time, I
regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. De antemano, gracias.

Tony Vella wrote:
For once I am working on a project that is not related to philately.
My ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new contract
and it would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have therefore
decided to devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic -- that I
have had close to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto"
which I would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather
than leaving it in the original between quotes. However, I have been
unable so far to find a single word to use for Morocho. I know that
in Argentina morocho is normally used to describe "a man with black
hair and a dark complexion" which does nothing for me; too long, too
many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has failed me this time, I
regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. De antemano, gracias.

TV:

Well. You must tell me more about the nature of this man before we
essay descriptives. Sometimes, the world chooses to describe a person
by some physical hallmark out of its irreducible singularity but on
other occasions that
election is more connotative, being a superficial exponent of more
central characteristics
or behavioral qualities that are in definitive ways dark, mysterious
or brooding.
Do you have more on "Abasto"? Like "Man of La Mancha", that may enfurl
further meaning. After all, "Man of The Stain" does tell a bit more.
I have "abasto" as "supply", "provisioning" or "abundance". My next
question is, " of what?"

I had an amusing conversation with a gentleman the other day who
is an aerialist in Ischitano; heaven forbid that I've accidentally
chanced on a place name
which falsely implies the trapeze is his occupation. You would have
enjoyed the byplay.

By the way, do you know the connection between twinned staurolite
crystals and the
Maltese cross? See:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=twinned+crystal+%22maltese+cross%22&btnG=Search

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto" which I
would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather than leaving
it in
the original between quotes. However, I have been unable so far to find a
single word to use for Morocho. I know that in Argentina morocho is
normally
used to describe "a man with black hair and a dark complexion" which does
nothing for me; too long, too many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has
failed me this time, I regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.

Edward Hennessey wrote:
Tony Vella wrote:
For once I am working on a project that is not related to philately.
My ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new contract
and it would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have therefore
decided to devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic -- that
I have had close to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto"
which I would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather
than leaving it in the original between quotes. However, I have
been unable so far to find a single word to use for Morocho. I know
that in Argentina morocho is normally used to describe "a man with
black hair and a dark complexion" which does nothing for me; too
long, too many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has failed me
this time, I regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. De antemano, gracias.

TV:

Well. You must tell me more about the nature of this man before we
essay descriptives. Sometimes, the world chooses to describe a person
by some physical hallmark out of its irreducible singularity but on
other occasions that
election is more connotative, being a superficial exponent of more
central characteristics
or behavioral qualities that are in definitive ways dark, mysterious
or brooding.
Do you have more on "Abasto"? Like "Man of La Mancha", that may
enfurl further meaning. After all, "Man of The Stain" does tell a
bit more. I have "abasto" as "supply", "provisioning" or
"abundance". My next question is, " of what?"

I had an amusing conversation with a gentleman the other day who
is an aerialist in Ischitano; heaven forbid that I've accidentally
chanced on a place name
which falsely implies the trapeze is his occupation. You would have
enjoyed the byplay.

By the way, do you know the connection between twinned staurolite
crystals and the
Maltese cross? See:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=twinned+crystal+%22maltese+cross%22&btnG=Search

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

TV:

A quick web run brought this.

"Abasto" in connection to your man refers to a marketplace of
abundance.
In Spanish, morocho means twins that aren't identical, and everyone
just calls both of them Morocho.

Dried, cracked, white corn kernels. Corn hominy.

***Paradoxically, the same racist ideology in Argentina that
maintains that "there are no negros in Argentina"[8] uses the word
negros to designate a vaguely-defined majority of the population made
up of workers, poor people, internal migrants, Latin-American
immigrants, and natives, without any more distinction.
Víctor Ramos, the president of SOS Internacional, responded in the
following manner when asked by a journalist what were the most common
manifestations of racism in Argentina:

I would say that the most common form, what we see most frequently,
is related to racism against the criollo. That is to say, against
those who are also referred to as "cabecita negra" or "morocho". It
is frequently said that in Argentina there is no racism because there
are no "negros"... but here there is much discrimination against
those of dark skin, including against aborigines who have a darker
skin color... this occurrs in the same manner in all of the provinces
of our country.[9]

Morocho is an Ecuadorian drink, served with a spoon, that blends
white corn with milk and cinnamon and that carries a payload of
raisins
Quick question--what is the etymology of "morocho"? Not "moorish" by
any chance?

Another thing I would do is see if this phrase commonly associated
with various literary ventures has already
been translated into English. Apparently there are--or might be--both
books and films on topic.

This term may go in more than one direction. If it is just
"dark-haired", that is ungainly but accurate. "Raven-haired"
sounds better but is usually exclusively female. "Dusky" is a word
that can bridge references and jet/coal/anthracite/ebon
are amusing collocations with hair.

Did you try Google scholar?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

TV:

"Swarthy" is the last word occuring to me before I yank the electrons on the
machine.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

The message <Ar2dnaeOh5w0pmHanZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@earthlink.com
from "Edward Hennessey" <halozzyzxhaloMINUS123@yahoo.com> contains
these words:

TV:

"Swarthy" is the last word occuring to me before I yank the
electrons on the machine.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

I wasn't questioning your swarthy Edward ! Although originating
earlier, your post didn't appear here until after I posted mine.

Cheers

--

For once I am working on a project that is not related to philately.
My ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new contract
and it would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have therefore
decided to devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic -- that I
have had close to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto"
which I would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather
than leaving it in the original between quotes. However, I have been
unable so far to find a single word to use for Morocho. I know that
in Argentina morocho is normally used to describe "a man with black
hair and a dark complexion" which does nothing for me; too long, too
many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has failed me this time, I
regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.
Incidentally, posters here who are familiar with the soc.culture and
the rec.culture groups will know without my telling them - Edward
Hennessey will rightly point out that I just did -- that they are
absolutely non-starters as recommendations.

Thanks in advance. De antemano, gracias.

For once I am working on a project that is not related to philately. My
ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new contract and it
would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have therefore decided to
devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic -- that I have had close
to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto" which I
would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather than leaving it
in the original between quotes. However, I have been unable so far to
find a single word to use for Morocho. I know that in Argentina morocho is
normally used to describe "a man with black hair and a dark complexion"
which does nothing for me; too long, too many words. Even my Lunfardo
dictionary has failed me this time, I regret to say. Any help will be
appreciated.

Quick question--what is the etymology of "morocho"? Not "moorish" by
any chance?

Edward Hennessey wrote:

Quick question--what is the etymology of "morocho"? Not "moorish" by
any chance?

That's what I would have thought. The RAE knows better, though
(http://tinyurl.com/6ho2hu): "Del quechua <muruch'u>, variedad de maíz muy
duro".

Edward Hennessey wrote:

Quick question--what is the etymology of "morocho"? Not
"moorish" by
any chance?

That's what I would have thought. The RAE knows better, though
(http://tinyurl.com/6ho2hu): "Del quechua <muruch'u>, variedad
de
maíz muy duro".

"Tony Vella" <tony.vella@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:v-2dnTzfZ-BCimHanZ2dnUVZ_oOnnZ2d@giganews.com...
For once I am working on a project that is not related to
philately.
My ISP has given me a big bunch of memory space with my new
contract
and it would be a pity to see it remain unused. I have
therefore
decided to devote some of it to a project -- non-philatelic --
that
I have had close to my heart for a long, long time.

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del
Abasto"
which I would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto"
rather
than leaving it in the original between quotes. However, I
have
been unable so far to find a single word to use for Morocho. I
know
that in Argentina morocho is normally used to describe "a man
with
black hair and a dark complexion" which does nothing for me;
too
long, too many words. Even my Lunfardo dictionary has failed
me
this time, I regret to say. Any help will be appreciated.

snip my own stuff

Thanks for all input. Here is some more background on
"Morocho":

The Man of La Mancha type of expression is exactly what I am
looking
for - a single noun that means "a man with black hair and dark
complexion". Carlos Gardel was arguably the greatest
interpreter of
the tango of the 20s and 30s. Although he travelled widely he
always
kept a house in Buenos Aires where he lived with his mother
whenever
he spent time in the city. The house, today a Carlos Gardel
museum,
is located in the Abasto district - a barrio built around the
old
Abasto Fruit and Vegetable Market which regrettably no longer
exists
and has been replaced with the Abasto Shopping Centre by George
Soros.

Even at the height of his career Gardel would visit the market
with
his mother, or drop in at his favourite neighbourhood restaurant
El
Chanta Cuatro (no longer there) and spend the night with friends
drinking, singing, playing cards. After the fatal plane crash
in
Medellín, Buenos Aires erected a statue to Gardel in front of
the
Abasto Shopping Centre and another at the Chacarita cemetery and
on
both is inscribed the affectionate title by which he was known
in his
barrio: El Morocho del Abasto.
In Buenos Aires the affluent and the less affluent classes are
usually
referred to as porteños and orilleros; I don't believe Morocho
has
ever been used for class distinction.

As an aside: my wife has collected crystals and I have paid for
them
for many years and until now I had never heard of a connection
between them and the Maltese Cross.

"Ekkehard Dengler" <ED-RS@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:ftigdj$j9j$01$1@news.t-online.com...
Edward Hennessey wrote:

Quick question--what is the etymology of "morocho"? Not "moorish" by
any chance?

That's what I would have thought. The RAE knows better, though
(http://tinyurl.com/6ho2hu): "Del quechua <muruch'u>, variedad de
maíz muy duro".

Hi Ekkehard. If I remember correctly (feel free to correct me) what
in Uruguay they call maíz morocho or maíz duro, in Argentina is
referred to as choclo. Morocho as an adjective is used for
describing "un hombre de piel morena y pelo negro".

Carlos Gardel was known in Buenos Aires as "El Morocho del Abasto" which I
would like to translate as "The xxx of the Abasto" rather than leaving it
in
the original between quotes. /.../
----------