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Bonnie Peebles

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:45 am

Guest

A nursing friend called me with a question the other day and I didn't
know the answer to it or really how to find it.

She works 6 12 hour shifts on and then has a week off.
She says she was contacted after being 2 days into her week off by her
hospital. Some narcotics had come up missing and everyone that had
been there around the time it could have happened was being drug
tested. ((No I didn't ask her about drug count at the end of each
shift or what they did or why it took so long to find the problem.))

Her concern was that she had just got a script filled and had taken
several Loracets (may have been percocet even) for pain she was having
( related to an old poorly healed fx.)

I asked her if she told the hospital all that she was taking when she
started and she said that it was never asked. When she had taken
her UDS to start working she asked if they needed to know her meds and
was told no. She was flagged for some sleeping med she took and
contacted by someone that called the pharmacy to ensure she had a
script for the med.

I told her that I didn't think she was suppose to take any pain meds
at all but she reminded me that I had taken some ( prescribed by an
MD) for post surgical pain. So I don't know. I guess if you are not
suppose to take anything then I did wrong when I took me meds.
I didn't take them at work, but I recall coming home after several
long shifts in a row and hurting pretty bad and having to take
something. It scares me to think I could have lost my job.
And I know something like info might be obtained from the
administration people, but I don't think it would do either one of us
very much good to go and ask what the hospital's opinion is on nurses
using narcotics prescribed by an MD. I've seen too much stuff come
back to bite people on the butt.

I would think it might vary state to state, but is there a general
thought on this matter? Would the nursing board our state be able to
help me find and answer?

BP

Candide

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:15 am

Guest

"Bonnie Peebles" <Bonnie@Peebles.Com> wrote in message
news:gu5ct35s5ba3md5f65skdke0pc48b08mbv@4ax.com...

Quote:

Any drug test I've ever taken inquires if one has taken any sort of
medication prior to the exam, and or even eaten certain foods, such as
poppy seeds. If one was scheduled for a drug test, and on any sort of
meds before the exam, would think the thing to do is contact whomever is
arranging the text and explain the matter, and see what they advise.

Nurses are not supposed to report for duty impaired by "drugs" and or
alcohol. What is "impaired" in the eyes of your employer, versus how one
feels is another matter. Should a patient dies or sustain serious injury
while under your care, and it came out that you had taken anything that
could have potentially altered your thinking, there could be
consequences and repercussions.

Your state board can tell you what would constitute "impaired under the
state's practice act, but that isn't going to help with individual
institutions, who set up their own rules as to what they will or will
not allow, which may be more strict that the SBON.

As for your friend's problem, I'd be more concerned to find out why the
hospital took so long to discover missing narcs. I know things have
gotten "sloppy" these days, but cannot imagine any nurse who values her
license signing off when the count has a discrepancy. If the counts
often are out of sorts, and no one bothers, anyone who knows this can
take advantage of the situation, hence the missing narcs.

Kurt Ullman

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:39 am

Guest

In article <gu5ct35s5ba3md5f65skdke0pc48b08mbv@4ax.com>,
Bonnie Peebles <Bonnie@Peebles.Com> wrote:

Quote:

A nursing friend called me with a question the other day and I didn't

I told her that I didn't think she was suppose to take any pain meds
at all but she reminded me that I had taken some ( prescribed by an
MD) for post surgical pain.
I don't know of any nursing regulation that says you can't take

PRESCRIBED pain relievers. I doubt that could be enforced.

cat

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:17 am

Guest

"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Quote:

Bonnie Peebles <Bonnie@Peebles.Com> wrote:

I told her that I didn't think she was suppose to take any pain meds
at all but she reminded me that I had taken some ( prescribed by an
MD) for post surgical pain.

I don't know of any nursing regulation that says you can't take
PRESCRIBED pain relievers. I doubt that could be enforced.

I agree. You aren't supposed to be under the influence at work, but what
you do during your time off is your own business. Assuming we're talking
about legal substances here. And I don't know many bedside nurses who don't
have to take something at least once in a while. Nursing *hurts*.

Even with the possibility that she may come up positive on a drug screen,
that is not by itself prima facie evidence that she diverted drugs. Not by
a long shot. And if her employer tries to suggest that it is, your friend
needs to consult an attorney. Yesterday.

Norminn

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:47 am

Guest

Kurt Ullman wrote:

Quote:

In article <gu5ct35s5ba3md5f65skdke0pc48b08mbv@4ax.com>,
Bonnie Peebles <Bonnie@Peebles.Com> wrote:

A nursing friend called me with a question the other day and I didn't

I told her that I didn't think she was suppose to take any pain meds
at all but she reminded me that I had taken some ( prescribed by an
MD) for post surgical pain.

I don't know of any nursing regulation that says you can't take
PRESCRIBED pain relievers. I doubt that could be enforced.

I've done a zillion pre-employment screenings, obtaining urine

speciments on new hires. Whenever
there was a positive result, all that was needed was a prescription.
Proof it was ordered for the
person by a physician was complete and adequate explanation.

If a nurse was involved in an incident, or asked to give a specimen "for
cause", I think the level
might be an indication of appropriate or inappropriate use even with a
scrip. Don't know.

Every once in a while there is a post here by a friend of someone with a
problem. A nurse with an
addiction or abusing prescription meds will not give family/friends the
whole "truth".
That is sure not reason
to doubt what the OP is about, just reason for caution. If a nurse is
asked to give a specimen
because there are missing narcs, then she should know enough to also
furnish a copy of her scrip.
If she hasn't done that, she should. It would be damn tough to have
pain severe enough for narcs
and still be able to work, IMO.

Kurt Ullman

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:02 pm

Guest

In article <13tdeafh6g95ifa@corp.supernews.com>,
Norminn <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:

I've done a zillion pre-employment screenings, obtaining urine
speciments on new hires. Whenever
there was a positive result, all that was needed was a prescription.
Proof it was ordered for the
person by a physician was complete and adequate explanation.

Can they tell by the metabolites, etc. that are present WHICH drugs

are being ingested. If someone is taking one thing, but the UDS shows
metabolites consistent with what is missing, that would obviously put a
whole different spin things.

Norminn

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:06 pm

Guest

Kurt Ullman wrote:

Quote:

In article <13tdeafh6g95ifa@corp.supernews.com>,
Norminn <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote:

I've done a zillion pre-employment screenings, obtaining urine
speciments on new hires. Whenever
there was a positive result, all that was needed was a prescription.
Proof it was ordered for the
person by a physician was complete and adequate explanation.

Can they tell by the metabolites, etc. that are present WHICH drugs
are being ingested. If someone is taking one thing, but the UDS shows
metabolites consistent with what is missing, that would obviously put a
whole different spin things.

I actually rarely encountered a positive test that involved prescription

drugs. Pot was the most
common issue, and I screened enough people I could pretty much tell
before we got results. The
explanation was always the same Surprised

) Once I goofed and sent HR the
result from an intial screening
without waiting for the secondary analysis. That was the only time that
"I was at a party and
some people were smoking pot." sounded like the truth. It apparently
was, as the full analysis came
back clean. I didn't worry about the science of how the test was done,
as the lab was a large one
and very "by the book".

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