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Science Forum Index » Medicine - Nursing Forum » Written Contract for CNA?
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Message |
| Sammy bin Snoozin |
 Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:56 pm |
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Guest
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Hello again folks,
It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer, but
we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
I would appreciate any info from anyone who has a contract with a CNA
or for similar home-help personnel.
Thanks.
Sam |
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| jofirey |
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:52 pm |
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Guest
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"Sammy bin Snoozin" <SammyBinSnoozin@REyahooMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:vt0_i.3084$VB6.2503@trnddc06...
Quote: Hello again folks,
It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer, but
we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
I would appreciate any info from anyone who has a contract with a CNA
or for similar home-help personnel.
Thanks.
Sam
Sounds like you may be out of luck. The presumption is that she is an
employee unless you can prove otherwise.
If she is in fact a contractor it would certainly be up to her to provide
the contract at the time of its inception.
Note: You cannot turn an employer-employee relationship into a contract
relationship just by saying so. If the only contract she has is with you,
that is a very strong argument for an employer, employee relationship.
In case you think I'm just being difficult, it is against public policy for
someone to give up their rights as an employee. Such as the right to
workers compensation coverage and the right to unemployment coverage. They
would also be giving up the right to matching SS funds.
All those things are in place not only for their protection but also to
prevent those liabilities from falling to the public sector.
Someone waives their right to unemployment or workers comp and ends up on
welfare etc, it costs me and everyone else.
Jo |
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| california_chief |
| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:12 pm |
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Guest
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"Sammy bin Snoozin" wrote:
Quote: It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer,
but we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
Try a stationery store. Perhaps a legal book store.
Hint: Most contracts are written by lawyers who know the terminology to
include in a contract to protect your butt in case anything happens. |
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| Candide |
| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:30 am |
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Guest
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"Sammy bin Snoozin" <SammyBinSnoozin@REyahooMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:vt0_i.3084$VB6.2503@trnddc06...
Quote: Hello again folks,
It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer, but
we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
I would appreciate any info from anyone who has a contract with a CNA
or for similar home-help personnel.
Thanks.
Sam
This has nothing to do with nursing. Contact a qualified attorney or at
the very least take your query over to a legal newsgroup.
Candide |
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| Sammy bin Snoozin |
| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:51 pm |
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Guest
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"jofirey" <jofirey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5prp6oFsgeahU1@mid.individual.net...
Quote:
"Sammy bin Snoozin" <SammyBinSnoozin@REyahooMOVE.com> wrote in
message
news:vt0_i.3084$VB6.2503@trnddc06...
Hello again folks,
It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between
us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer,
but
we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
I would appreciate any info from anyone who has a contract with a
CNA
or for similar home-help personnel.
Thanks.
Sam
Sounds like you may be out of luck. The presumption is that she is
an
employee unless you can prove otherwise.
If she is in fact a contractor it would certainly be up to her to
provide
the contract at the time of its inception.
Note: You cannot turn an employer-employee relationship into a
contract
relationship just by saying so. If the only contract she has is
with you,
that is a very strong argument for an employer, employee
relationship.
In case you think I'm just being difficult, it is against public
policy for
someone to give up their rights as an employee. Such as the right
to
workers compensation coverage and the right to unemployment
coverage. They
would also be giving up the right to matching SS funds.
All those things are in place not only for their protection but also
to
prevent those liabilities from falling to the public sector.
Someone waives their right to unemployment or workers comp and ends
up on
welfare etc, it costs me and everyone else.
Jo
Thanks, Jo, but this is not the case. A verbal contract is still a
contract. I had to deal with this kind of situation in a non-nursing
situation. Both parties understood the contractor relationship from
the beginning. The state employment dept (another state) queried us
(employer) about it. I explained the situation and the contractor and
I wrote up an agreement, signed in and mailed it in, and no problem. |
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| Sammy bin Snoozin |
| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:51 pm |
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Guest
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Go fly a kite.
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:hNg_i.2556$Z01.642@trndny01...
Quote:
"Sammy bin Snoozin" <SammyBinSnoozin@REyahooMOVE.com> wrote in
message
news:vt0_i.3084$VB6.2503@trnddc06...
Hello again folks,
It's coming up on tax time and I have been told by the NC state
employment security dept that we need a written contract between
us
and our CNA to prove to the state that she is indeed a contractor.
Both she and I have understood this since she started this summer,
but
we don't know where to get a contract form to use as a guide.
I would appreciate any info from anyone who has a contract with a
CNA
or for similar home-help personnel.
Thanks.
Sam
This has nothing to do with nursing. Contact a qualified attorney or
at
the very least take your query over to a legal newsgroup.
Candide
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| Ernie Jones |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:22 am |
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I will be signing on a CNA to come to a relative's house every other day and do basic caregiving and light housekeeping and yard work.
From studying IRS publication 926, "Household Employer's Tax Guide," I believe that the working relationship between my uncle and the CNA is a contract relationship and not an employer-employee relationship.
The reason I believe this is that the publication states, "The worker is your employee if you can control not only what work is done, but how it is done."
From my conversations with the CNA and my uncle, I do not believe that this applies to their situation, because the CNA has an ongoing general objective, which is to care for my uncle, and the CNA achieves that objective using skills that the CNA learned in training as a certified nursing aide rather than following instructions that my uncle has given to the CNA.
In a contract relationship, the payer is not required to withhold taxes or social security from payments made. The only requirement is for the payer to issue a 1099-MISC form to the payee and to file the appropriate forms with IRS by the end of February. |
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| Ernie Jones |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:22 am |
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Guest
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Another question -- if considered a household employee, would the employer/homeowner need to purchase worker comp insurance?
"Ernie Jones" <ernie.jones@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:SBasj.6436$Wr4.956@trnddc05...
I will be signing on a CNA to come to a relative's house every other day and do basic caregiving and light housekeeping and yard work.
From studying IRS publication 926, "Household Employer's Tax Guide," I believe that the working relationship between my uncle and the CNA is a contract relationship and not an employer-employee relationship.
The reason I believe this is that the publication states, "The worker is your employee if you can control not only what work is done, but how it is done."
From my conversations with the CNA and my uncle, I do not believe that this applies to their situation, because the CNA has an ongoing general objective, which is to care for my uncle, and the CNA achieves that objective using skills that the CNA learned in training as a certified nursing aide rather than following instructions that my uncle has given to the CNA.
In a contract relationship, the payer is not required to withhold taxes or social security from payments made. The only requirement is for the payer to issue a 1099-MISC form to the payee and to file the appropriate forms with IRS by the end of February. |
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| Starlight |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:22 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:00:18 GMT, "Ernie Jones"
<ernie.jones@nowhere.com> posted:
Quote: I will be signing on a CNA to come to a relative's house every other day and do basic caregiving and light housekeeping and yard work.
From studying IRS publication 926, "Household Employer's Tax Guide," I believe that the working relationship between my uncle and the CNA is a contract relationship and not an employer-employee relationship.
The reason I believe this is that the publication states, "The worker is your employee if you can control not only what work is done, but how it is done."
From my work with the Ohio Homecare Program as an RN: the CNAs and
the RNs are Independent Contractors. Therefore we receive a
1099-Misc . We are not offered workman's comp, insurance, or anything
else. I imagine it would be the same for you. The CNA is essentially
her own business; she's responsible for her own insurance, etc. if she
desires to have it. Your uncle (or you) will pay her in whatever
fashion you agree, for the hours she works, with no deductions.
Put EVERYTHING in writing. Agree on hours, payment, etc.. Make up a
time sheet on which she will mark the time she got to your uncle's
house and the time she leaves, and that time sheet should stay in the
home so you can check it. You should also have a list of duties your
uncle wants her to do. That doesn't mean she'll do them every
day/week, but she'll know what he and you expect so there's no
question. If she goes to the store for him, provide an envelope for
the receipts.
There are some wonderful aides out there, but there are also many
(aides, nurses and other health care providers) that aren't completely
ethical and who will take advantage of a situation. Remember this is
a professional relationship. She/he needs to understand that her
personal problems aren't your uncle's problems. Maintain good lines of
communication with her so you can "feel out" any problems that might
creep up.
Good luck!
Becky |
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