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fjkelly
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:21 pm
Guest
can anybody explain to me the meaning of "dimension" of self-similar
objects (like fractals), how it's derived, and how this is used? for
instance, why is the "dimension" of the cantor set log2/log3?

thanks,
Frank
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:00 pm
Guest
In article <d7ee230e.0312191421.59f19caa@posting.google.com>, fjkelly
<fjkelly6112@hotmail.com> writes
Quote:
can anybody explain to me the meaning of "dimension" of self-similar
objects (like fractals), how it's derived, and how this is used? for
instance, why is the "dimension" of the cantor set log2/log3?

thanks,
Frank

If a self-similar figure is composed of copies all of a single size, and
which are disjoint sets, then the similarity dimension is

log(number of copies)/log(ratio of linear dimensions)

I.e. a line is composed of n line segments, and is n times the length of
each segment, and has dimension log(n)/log(n) = 1;

A square is composed of n^2 smaller squares, and its sides are n times
the length of the sides of each smaller square, and had dimension
log(n^2)/log(n) = 2.

The Cantor Set is composed of two smaller copies of itself, and it 3
times larger than the copies, and therefore has dimension log(2)/log(3).

I presume that there is a generalisation of this for when the copies are
not all of the same size, for when the copies are non-disjoint, or for
self-affine objects, but I can't state it.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/reptiles.html
http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/tiling.html
Dave Rusin
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:14 am
Guest
In article <KWsuzBAEM44$EwF0@meden.demon.co.uk>,
Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
In article <d7ee230e.0312191421.59f19caa@posting.google.com>, fjkelly
fjkelly6112@hotmail.com> writes
can anybody explain to me the meaning of "dimension" of self-similar
objects (like fractals), how it's derived, and how this is used? for
instance, why is the "dimension" of the cantor set log2/log3?

If a self-similar figure is composed of copies all of a single size, and
which are disjoint sets, then the similarity dimension is

log(number of copies)/log(ratio of linear dimensions)

I.e. a line is composed of n line segments, and is n times the length of
each segment, and has dimension log(n)/log(n) = 1;

A square is composed of n^2 smaller squares, and its sides are n times
the length of the sides of each smaller square, and had dimension
log(n^2)/log(n) = 2.

This is the right idea. Try to cover your figure with disks of radius r
and ask how the number of disks needed changs with r. As the previous
poster noted, when you try to cover a square with these disks, you'll
need something like 1/r^2 of them, just by thinking about area.
That exponent "2" is there because the square is two-dimensional.
Do the same thing with a smooth curve: just by thinking about length,
you can see you'll need something like 1/r^1 disks of radius r just
to cover a curve (of length 1). I threw in an extraneous exponent of 1
there just to remind you that you are working with a 1-dimensional
thing when you speak of a curve. One more example: you need about
1/r^3 balls of radius r to cover some lumpy blob in 3-space; so
again we see the dimension of the blob (3) showing up as the exponent.

So here's a definition of dimension (of a compact subset X of R^n).
The dimension of X is the exponent d in this sentence:
When we cover X by balls of radius r, we need about 1/r^d of them.
More precisely, let N(r) be the minimal number of balls of radius r
whose union contains all of X ; then dim(X) = - log( N(r) )/log( r ) .

Exercise: compute the dimension of the Cantor set using this definition.
It's not an integer!

dave
Yogi
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:48 am
Guest
On 19 Dec 2003, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Quote:
In article <d7ee230e.0312191421.59f19caa@posting.google.com>, fjkelly
fjkelly6112@hotmail.com> writes
can anybody explain to me the meaning of "dimension" of self-similar
objects (like fractals), how it's derived, and how this is used? for
instance, why is the "dimension" of the cantor set log2/log3?

thanks,
Frank

If a self-similar figure is composed of copies all of a single size, and
which are disjoint sets, then the similarity dimension is

log(number of copies)/log(ratio of linear dimensions)

I.e. a line is composed of n line segments, and is n times the length of
each segment, and has dimension log(n)/log(n) = 1;

A square is composed of n^2 smaller squares, and its sides are n times
the length of the sides of each smaller square, and had dimension
log(n^2)/log(n) = 2.

The Cantor Set is composed of two smaller copies of itself, and it 3
times larger than the copies, and therefore has dimension log(2)/log(3).

I presume that there is a generalisation of this for when the copies are
not all of the same size, for when the copies are non-disjoint, or for
self-affine objects, but I can't state it.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
a href="http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/reptiles.html">http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/reptiles.html</a
a href="http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/tiling.html">http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Fractals/tiling.html</a

Another way of thinking about it is this:
If you multiply every length of a 1-dimensional object by a,
then you multiply its "measure" by a (because for a 1-dimensional
object, measure IS length).
IF you multiply every length of a 2-dimensional object by a,
then you multiply its measure (area) by a^2.
If you multiply every length of a 3-dimensional object by a, then you multiply its measure (volume) by a^3.

We form the Cantor set by repeatedly dividing it into 3 pieces
and discarding the middle so there are 2 pieces left: if the Cantor
set has dimension d, then we take the d power of each length- each
step we multiply by (1/3)^d- and then multiply by 2: the measure
would be lim as n-> infinity of (2/(3^d))^n If (2/3^d)< 1 (in
particular if d=1) this would be 0. If (2/3^d)> 1, this would be
infinite. The only way to get a finite, non-zero, area is to take
2/3^d= 1 or 2= 3^d. Taking logarithms of both sides,
log(2)= d log(3) so d= log(2)/log(3).
David C. Ullrich
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:51 am
Guest
On 20 Dec 2003 05:14:36 GMT, rusin@vesuvius.math.niu.edu (Dave Rusin)
wrote:

Quote:
In article <KWsuzBAEM44$EwF0@meden.demon.co.uk>,
Stewart Robert Hinsley <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
In article <d7ee230e.0312191421.59f19caa@posting.google.com>, fjkelly
fjkelly6112@hotmail.com> writes
can anybody explain to me the meaning of "dimension" of self-similar
objects (like fractals), how it's derived, and how this is used? for
instance, why is the "dimension" of the cantor set log2/log3?

If a self-similar figure is composed of copies all of a single size, and
which are disjoint sets, then the similarity dimension is

log(number of copies)/log(ratio of linear dimensions)

I.e. a line is composed of n line segments, and is n times the length of
each segment, and has dimension log(n)/log(n) = 1;

A square is composed of n^2 smaller squares, and its sides are n times
the length of the sides of each smaller square, and had dimension
log(n^2)/log(n) = 2.

This is the right idea. Try to cover your figure with disks of radius r
and ask how the number of disks needed changs with r. As the previous
poster noted, when you try to cover a square with these disks, you'll
need something like 1/r^2 of them, just by thinking about area.
That exponent "2" is there because the square is two-dimensional.
Do the same thing with a smooth curve: just by thinking about length,
you can see you'll need something like 1/r^1 disks of radius r just
to cover a curve (of length 1). I threw in an extraneous exponent of 1
there just to remind you that you are working with a 1-dimensional
thing when you speak of a curve. One more example: you need about
1/r^3 balls of radius r to cover some lumpy blob in 3-space; so
again we see the dimension of the blob (3) showing up as the exponent.

So here's a definition of dimension (of a compact subset X of R^n).
The dimension of X is the exponent d in this sentence:
When we cover X by balls of radius r, we need about 1/r^d of them.
More precisely, let N(r) be the minimal number of balls of radius r
whose union contains all of X ; then dim(X) = - log( N(r) )/log( r ) .

Almost. The dimension can't be quite - log( N(r) )/log( r )
because that depends on r. The dimension (or one version
of the "dimension") is the _limit_ of - log( N(r) )/log( r )
as r -> 0, if this limit exists (in general it's the lim inf of
- log( N(r) )/log( r ), unless I'm off by a minus one in
which case it's the lim sup.)

Quote:
Exercise: compute the dimension of the Cantor set using this definition.
It's not an integer!

dave


************************

David C. Ullrich
 
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