AGMA gear quality equivalent in China

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Corey

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:40 am

Guest

Does anybody know of a system manufacturers uses in China to address
gear quality? I have spoken with a guy in China, who indicated
there's a system called "GuoBiao" which is similar to DIN. Has
anybody ever heard of it? I'm trying to reduce cost for my company by
switching our sources for gears (AGMA 10) from a US manufacturer to
one in China. The cost is about a quarter, but I'm just not sure
about the quality. If anybody has any similar experience, I'd love to
hear it. Thank you in advance.

Charlie Gary

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:03 pm

Guest

"Corey" <aircorr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com...

Quote:

You may get some help from someone outside the U.S., but I kind of doubt
anybody inside the U.S. is going to help you export their job. I could be
wrong, though. It wouldn't be the first time.

--

Later,

Charlie

fix the e-mail address and it will get to me

Garlicdude

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:44 pm

Guest

Corey wrote:

Quote:

Hamei, where are you??
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

Garlicdude

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:47 pm

Guest

Charlie Gary wrote:

Quote:

"Corey" <aircorr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com...
Does anybody know of a system manufacturers uses in China to address
gear quality? I have spoken with a guy in China, who indicated
there's a system called "GuoBiao" which is similar to DIN. Has
anybody ever heard of it? I'm trying to reduce cost for my company by
switching our sources for gears (AGMA 10) from a US manufacturer to
one in China. The cost is about a quarter, but I'm just not sure
about the quality. If anybody has any similar experience, I'd love to
hear it. Thank you in advance.

You may get some help from someone outside the U.S., but I kind of doubt
anybody inside the U.S. is going to help you export their job. I could be
wrong, though. It wouldn't be the first time.

--

Later,

Charlie

fix the e-mail address and it will get to me

Charlie, I'm sure there are consultants that will help you
move your product offshore, and make a profit doing it, and
American manfacturing, security, and standard of living be
damned.
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:50 pm

Guest

Corey wrote:

Quote:

You're a little late asking this question. The expert on gears AND China
just left to go there.
By the way, why don't you save your company some money but volunteering
for a cut in
pay? No? You are trying to do the same thing to me.

Fred

PrecisionMachinisT

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:55 pm

Guest

"Garlicdude" <pulsar@garlic.com> wrote in message
news:3F281204.622C7FD7@garlic.com...

Quote:

Hamei, where are you??

I for one speculate Hamei may well advise against the proposal...

Time will tell--Likely he will chime in here before too long, I predict.

--

SVL

Ed Huntress

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 2:53 pm

Guest

"Corey" <aircorr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com...

Quote:

You're a week too late. A gearmaking specialist who worked in China for 10
years and who hung out here nearly every day just went back to China last
week. He gets better deals on the whores, a lot like buying parts there.

Ed Huntress

Mark McGrath

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:16 pm

Guest

aircorr@yahoo.com (Corey) wrote in message news:<5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com>...

Quote:

I had a conversation with a director from a well known UK machine tool
builder
about a year ago regarding gears and he reckoned Russia was the place
to go.
They were buying gears which matched the quality of the best they
could get in the UK for under £20 each.The same gear here was
£300.Don`t know who the supplier was and my friend has since died but
I may be able to find out.
Regards,Mark.

Pete Logghe

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:28 pm

Guest

aircorr@yahoo.com (Corey) wrote in message news:<5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com>...

Quote:

I hope you lose your job as a cost cutting measure.

Where will your children earn a living?
WHO will they be selling "services" too????

Pete

Gary H. Lucas

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:42 pm

Guest

"Mark McGrath" <mark@ems-fife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:be9b8b41.0307301416.233bc3df@posting.google.com...

Quote:

aircorr@yahoo.com (Corey) wrote in message
news:<5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com>...
Does anybody know of a system manufacturers uses in China to address
gear quality? I have spoken with a guy in China, who indicated
there's a system called "GuoBiao" which is similar to DIN. Has
anybody ever heard of it? I'm trying to reduce cost for my company by
switching our sources for gears (AGMA 10) from a US manufacturer to
one in China. The cost is about a quarter, but I'm just not sure
about the quality. If anybody has any similar experience, I'd love to
hear it. Thank you in advance.

I had a conversation with a director from a well known UK machine tool
builder
about a year ago regarding gears and he reckoned Russia was the place
to go.
They were buying gears which matched the quality of the best they
could get in the UK for under £20 each.The same gear here was
£300.Don`t know who the supplier was and my friend has since died but
I may be able to find out.
Regards,Mark.

I worked for a small robot manufacturer a few years ago. He was bragging to
me about the great quality and cheap prices he was getting for gears and
timing belt sprockets and such. One day I was looking closely at the timing
belt drive in one of the robots. I asked him if the encoders jumped around
a couple of pulses on a regular basis. He said they did but they could
never figure out why. It was pretty obvious what the problem was. They
used the exact same tooth form for all the different diameter timing belt
sprockets. They didn't take into account the way the teeth close up around
small sprockets. The encoder sprocket had huge amounts of backlash as a
result. That often happens when you just steal ideas, instead of engineering
them.

Gary H. Lucas

Mark Winlund

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:00 pm

Guest

"Pete Logghe" <3t3d@centurytel.net> wrote

Quote:

I hope you lose your job as a cost cutting measure.

Where will your children earn a living?
WHO will they be selling "services" too????

Pete

Amen.... this is an interesting thread. Everyone I know, (including
myself) has lost something to foreign manufacturing. What does the future
hold? The question above is a good one.... where will your children earn a
living?

Mark

PrecisionMachinisT

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:54 pm

Guest

"Mark Winlund" <mark@maxmachine.com> wrote in message
news:bg9m6d$j9l$1@quark.scn.rain.com...

Quote:

"Pete Logghe" <3t3d@centurytel.net> wrote

I hope you lose your job as a cost cutting measure.

Where will your children earn a living?
WHO will they be selling "services" too????

Pete

Amen.... this is an interesting thread. Everyone I know, (including
myself) has lost something to foreign manufacturing. What does the future
hold? The question above is a good one.... where will your children earn
a
living?

I have my youngest son working part time over this summer in the shop.....

Yeah, its sad to come to the realization that the days of passing machine
shops from father to son are just about done for.....

I think W.D. could maybe relate to us some wisdom on this, ease the sadness
a bit... <g>

Back to China......I remember when I was young, everything that came from
Japan was of poor quality, Junk---A joke---No one took them
seriously....even when the Japanese executives were taking tours through our
automotive and aerospace factories. <g>

Small lots.....niche items--maybe *some* critical high tech stuff....that
may be about all thats left in a few more years. And were fighting each
other so hard for the remaining scraps and leftovers that nobody seems to be
making much money nowadays......

--

SVL

DZyn

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:00 pm

Guest

Be very careful. The Chinese culture is very different from ours. To them
a contract is more of a "wish list", and they really will have no idea why
you are upset when they don't adhere to it.

I am in the mold building industry, which has taken a beating from Chinese
competition. The particular niche that we serve has not been directly
exported to China, but many moldmakers cannot say the same thing.

Here's a fairly interesting story: One of our customers told me about two
incidents of them trying to save money by buying Chinese products. In one
case, they bought a small mold. It had, at best, "fair" quality
workmanship, with extremely poor materials. They tried another project,
this time our customer supplied the materials. Again, they got fair
quality. However, this time the Chinese replaced the supplied high quality
materials with more low quality material. Nobody knows where the good
material went.

Same customer (maybe a glutton for punishment) decided that they would
instead buy only components. These are critical round components, with
multiple diameters, having tolerance requirements in the range of .0005
inches maximum T.I.R. conventricity. The bearing diameters on the supplied
parts ran out over .030 inches T.I.R. in relation to the gear pitch
diameter. The fact that the sizes were incorrect was of no consequence,
since the parts had to be trashed as a result of the concentricity
requirements.

I could go on and on. We see some of this junk come to us, with the
customers wanting to know if we can salvage the trash that they have
purchased.

Buyer Beware!

"Corey" <aircorr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5b99d309.0307300940.79c27a67@posting.google.com...

Quote:

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Gordon Couger

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:07 pm

Guest

"DZyn" <rhuber@dzynsource.com> wrote in message
news:3f287940$1_5@corp.newsgroups.com...

Quote:

Be very careful. The Chinese culture is very different from ours. To
them
a contract is more of a "wish list", and they really will have no idea why
you are upset when they don't adhere to it.

I am in the mold building industry, which has taken a beating from Chinese
competition. The particular niche that we serve has not been directly
exported to China, but many moldmakers cannot say the same thing.

Here's a fairly interesting story: One of our customers told me about two
incidents of them trying to save money by buying Chinese products. In one
case, they bought a small mold. It had, at best, "fair" quality
workmanship, with extremely poor materials. They tried another project,
this time our customer supplied the materials. Again, they got fair
quality. However, this time the Chinese replaced the supplied high
quality
materials with more low quality material. Nobody knows where the good
material went.

Same customer (maybe a glutton for punishment) decided that they would
instead buy only components. These are critical round components, with
multiple diameters, having tolerance requirements in the range of .0005
inches maximum T.I.R. conventricity. The bearing diameters on the
supplied
parts ran out over .030 inches T.I.R. in relation to the gear pitch
diameter. The fact that the sizes were incorrect was of no consequence,
since the parts had to be trashed as a result of the concentricity
requirements.

I could go on and on. We see some of this junk come to us, with the
customers wanting to know if we can salvage the trash that they have
purchased.

My son married a Chinese girl. Her parents are both businessmen in China.

They sent her to the US to get and education and to stay and not go back
except for visits. Her mothers business problems are like problems in the
gold rush days.

The Chinese and the western world are having a hard time working out a lot
of things.But boy are there a lot of Chinese workers and there and
unbelievable number more on the farm that would like to come to town and
live a better life. It is like the western world before the industrial
revolution.

If they can pull it off they can be one hell of a consumer as well as low
cost producer that makes Japan look like a postage stamp in a library.

I think politics is the weak link. How can they keep power in a more
affluent and knowledgeable population. If they ever loose their central
planning and ability to act they fall off the boat and end up like India.

They will solve their quality problems just like Japan did.

Gordon Couger
Stillwater, OK
www.couger.com/gcouger

Richard W.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:24 pm

Guest

"PrecisionMachinisT" <Precisionmachinist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bg9pcd$mkol2$1@ID-178395.news.uni-berlin.de...

Quote:

Back to China......I remember when I was young, everything that came from
Japan was of poor quality, Junk---A joke---No one took them
seriously....even when the Japanese executives were taking tours through
our
automotive and aerospace factories. <g

It doesn't seem that long ago. I remember when the inspectors made them
tear out the Japanese rebar and put in the US made stuff. Must have been
really bad if they wouldn't even let them cast it in concrete.

Richard W.

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