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| Newsgroup Poster |
 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:48 pm |
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Guest
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Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
TIA! |
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| Tom Brown |
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:48 pm |
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Guest
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"Newsgroup Poster" <ng_poster@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:afff3966.0311131048.30d77904@posting.google.com...
[quote:841526ee56]Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
[/quote:841526ee56]
Hi
I think the Irish (and the Germans) have always been seen as white, but the
distinction is often drawn from the British (English?).
The UK Census distinguishes (only) three categories for White:
White-British
White-Irish (/Irish-born)
White-Other
This is often combined with a separate question on country of birth
here's a quick reference to more detail on that
http://www.ccsr.ac.uk/publications/newsletters/13news.htm |
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| Tom Brown |
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:48 pm |
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Guest
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I wrote...
[quote:481e096d0a]The UK Census distinguishes (only) three categories for White:
White-British
White-Irish (/Irish-born)
White-Other
[/quote:481e096d0a]
I should just correct myself, because the Census uses different versions of
questions in Scotland and N.Ireland. White-Scottish and White-Other-British as
well.
I have some more thoughts on this as well:
[quote:481e096d0a]The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
[/quote:481e096d0a]
The Irish were not viewed as _British_, which is obviously a race on its own
(you could tell these things by accents and table manners in those days)
The Army (I'm guessing here, but most organisations do) record this kind of
information for their ethnic 'equal opportunities' monitoring. Present day. They
will probably use the same categories as the Census. I don't think they
distinguish 'Normans' anymore. |
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| Féachadóir |
| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:37 pm |
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Scríobh ng_poster@yahoo.com (Newsgroup Poster):
[quote:24c0db239d]Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
[/quote:24c0db239d]
These are the first three I googled. There are plenty more out there.
http://www.victorianweb.org/history/race/Racism.html
http://www.victorianweb.org/history/race/rc5.html
http://www.nde.state.ne.us/SS/irish/unit_2.html
[quote:24c0db239d]The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
[/quote:24c0db239d]
It's possible, though who they classified as Norman is anyone's guess.
--
"Ferr fíor fertaib"
Féachadóir |
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| T. A. Lane |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:00 pm |
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Guest
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I don't know the answer to this, but I asked my boyfriend and this is what
he said. He said he wasn't 100% positive, but this is his best guess:
I'm no expert on this stuff, but as I understand it, the Irish are different
because they are more purely Celtic than the rest of the UK or Continental
Europe (both of which were Celtic at one time, but later shifted). Europe
was not settled by Africans. Europe is a true melting pot; various peoples
swept back and forth over Europe, or at least parts of it, at various times
in history. Among these are the Aryans, the Greeks, the Romans, the
Normans, the Celts, the Franks/Gauls, the Goths, the Teutons and the
Nordics. Differences in what later became the various countries of Europe
are attributable to the the various pockets where these different peoples
eventually settled and/or dominated. Thus, when the Celts were swept away,
the last remaining bastion of the Celts was Ireland. The
Gauls/Franks/Normans became France...and so on.
"Newsgroup Poster" <ng_poster@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:afff3966.0311131048.30d77904@posting.google.com...
[quote:f5f8a75e07]Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
TIA![/quote:f5f8a75e07] |
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| miss calm |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:06 pm |
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Guest
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Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than people in
Britain.
"T. A. Lane" <terrylane@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:HydXb.4525$hm4.3308@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote:525ae55d2e]I don't know the answer to this, but I asked my boyfriend and this is what
he said. He said he wasn't 100% positive, but this is his best guess:
I'm no expert on this stuff, but as I understand it, the Irish are
different
because they are more purely Celtic than the rest of the UK or Continental
Europe (both of which were Celtic at one time, but later shifted). Europe
was not settled by Africans. Europe is a true melting pot; various
peoples
swept back and forth over Europe, or at least parts of it, at various
times
in history. Among these are the Aryans, the Greeks, the Romans, the
Normans, the Celts, the Franks/Gauls, the Goths, the Teutons and the
Nordics. Differences in what later became the various countries of Europe
are attributable to the the various pockets where these different peoples
eventually settled and/or dominated. Thus, when the Celts were swept
away,
the last remaining bastion of the Celts was Ireland. The
Gauls/Franks/Normans became France...and so on.
"Newsgroup Poster" <ng_poster@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:afff3966.0311131048.30d77904@posting.google.com...
Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
TIA!
[/quote:525ae55d2e] |
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| T. A. Lane |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:17 pm |
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Guest
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I don't know personally, but I have heard that from other people as well.
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quote:d60163ce67]Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than people
in
Britain.
"T. A. Lane" <terrylane@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:HydXb.4525$hm4.3308@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
I don't know the answer to this, but I asked my boyfriend and this is
what
he said. He said he wasn't 100% positive, but this is his best guess:
I'm no expert on this stuff, but as I understand it, the Irish are
different
because they are more purely Celtic than the rest of the UK or
Continental
Europe (both of which were Celtic at one time, but later shifted).
Europe
was not settled by Africans. Europe is a true melting pot; various
peoples
swept back and forth over Europe, or at least parts of it, at various
times
in history. Among these are the Aryans, the Greeks, the Romans, the
Normans, the Celts, the Franks/Gauls, the Goths, the Teutons and the
Nordics. Differences in what later became the various countries of
Europe
are attributable to the the various pockets where these different
peoples
eventually settled and/or dominated. Thus, when the Celts were swept
away,
the last remaining bastion of the Celts was Ireland. The
Gauls/Franks/Normans became France...and so on.
"Newsgroup Poster" <ng_poster@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:afff3966.0311131048.30d77904@posting.google.com...
Honest question, folks --
Can anyone confirm or deny WITH "scholarly citation" the following
statements?
The Irish at one time were not viewed as "white" by the British (since
"race" is a sociological construct anyway, and the definition back
then was such that many spoke in all earnesty of categories like "the
German race", "the Irish race", etc.).
The British Army as of as late as 1940 categorized recruits into five
races: Norman, Welsh, Scotch, Irish, and English?
TIA!
[/quote:d60163ce67] |
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| Roberto (aka bfb) |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:30 pm |
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Guest
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"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quote:bce6913381]Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.[/quote:bce6913381] |
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| miss calm |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:44 pm |
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Guest
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"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:JLadneuSseiL8bDd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
[quote:f2daed8148]"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than
people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.
[/quote:f2daed8148]
How do you know which country I come from? I might come from Erin for as far
as you know.
I might have personal experience of widespread Irish racism for all you
know.
[quote:f2daed8148]
[/quote:f2daed8148] |
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| Roberto (aka bfb) |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:44 pm |
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Guest
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"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jucm$gvh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quote:6247a27f35]
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:JLadneuSseiL8bDd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than
people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.
How do you know which country I come from? I might come from Erin for as
far
as you know.
I might have personal experience of widespread Irish racism for all you
know.
Ok the post came from Britain. Ok back up your racist statement.[/quote:6247a27f35] |
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| miss calm |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:00 am |
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Guest
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"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:p8idncA27uoT4LDdRVn-hQ@adelphia.com...
[quote:2473c3110b]"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jucm$gvh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:JLadneuSseiL8bDd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than
people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.
How do you know which country I come from? I might come from Erin for as
far
as you know.
I might have personal experience of widespread Irish racism for all you
know.
Ok the post came from Britain. Ok back up your racist statement.
[/quote:2473c3110b]
So? There are millions of Irish people in the UK.
Are you one of these Republican terrorists by the way, stirring up
anti-British hatred on the Net in order to gain recruits?
[quote:2473c3110b]
[/quote:2473c3110b] |
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| Roberto (aka bfb) |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:46 am |
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Guest
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"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0ld06$b5q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quote:821dc8d95d]
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:p8idncA27uoT4LDdRVn-hQ@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jucm$gvh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:JLadneuSseiL8bDd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist than
people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.
How do you know which country I come from? I might come from Erin for
as
far
as you know.
I might have personal experience of widespread Irish racism for all
you
know.
Ok the post came from Britain. Ok back up your racist statement.
So? There are millions of Irish people in the UK.
Are you one of these Republican terrorists by the way, stirring up
anti-British hatred on the Net in order to gain recruits?
I said it came from a racist country. Britain is taking care of any[/quote:821dc8d95d]
recruitment issues. |
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| michael adams |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:47 am |
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Guest
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"hmhawktoo" <NOSPAM@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:c0lbug$17sada$1@ID-111931.news.uni-berlin.de...
[quote:c735bb3708]I have often made the case whereby peoples should not be categorised by
their countries of origin or actions of their various governments.
[/quote:c735bb3708]
[quote:c735bb3708]The Irish have yet to be truly tested.
[/quote:c735bb3708]
er'
michael adams
.... |
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| miss calm |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:56 am |
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Guest
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"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:Z7udnSZkzKUi37PdRVn-hg@adelphia.com...
[quote:295c36ab11]"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0ld06$b5q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:p8idncA27uoT4LDdRVn-hQ@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jucm$gvh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
news:JLadneuSseiL8bDd4p2dnA@adelphia.com...
"miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat> wrote in message
news:c0jolk$mad$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Not only are Irish people white, but they are far more racist
than
people
in
Britain.
Coming from the original racist country, that's a hoot.
How do you know which country I come from? I might come from Erin
for
as
far
as you know.
I might have personal experience of widespread Irish racism for all
you
know.
Ok the post came from Britain. Ok back up your racist statement.
So? There are millions of Irish people in the UK.
Are you one of these Republican terrorists by the way, stirring up
anti-British hatred on the Net in order to gain recruits?
I said it came from a racist country. Britain is taking care of any
recruitment issues.
[/quote:295c36ab11]
I thought so. Why dont you eff off then onto an Irish newsgroup and keep
your Republican propaganda to 'yourselves alone'.
[quote:295c36ab11]
[/quote:295c36ab11] |
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| Féachadóir |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm |
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Scríobh "miss calm" <dufize.aram@nospam.cat>:
[quote:76073bf6e8]
"Roberto (aka bfb)" <_@-._> wrote in message
[/quote:76073bf6e8]
Try not reading him. It makes the newsgroup much more interesting
--
"Ferr fíor fertaib"
Féachadóir |
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