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| shimuhy |
 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:52 am |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:58 am |
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| Mark |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:02 pm |
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tunderbar@hotmail.com wrote:
[quote:8a5b100f85]shimuhy wrote:
Study shows that drug pioglitazone can improve outcome of type 2
diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382
Scientists are also developing new drugs for fighting diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383
So does restricting refined carbs in the diet. And the side effects are
loss of excess weight and much better general health.
TC
[/quote:8a5b100f85]
Yeah, but for some people, it is easier to pop a pill than it is to put
down the doughnut.
Mark, MD |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:16 pm |
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Mark wrote:
[quote:22b03e5bd2]tunderbar@hotmail.com wrote:
shimuhy wrote:
Study shows that drug pioglitazone can improve outcome of type 2
diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382
Scientists are also developing new drugs for fighting diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383
So does restricting refined carbs in the diet. And the side effects are
loss of excess weight and much better general health.
TC
Yeah, but for some people, it is easier to pop a pill than it is to put
down the doughnut.
Mark, MD
[/quote:22b03e5bd2]
And more profitable to prescribe pills than explore easier, better and
cheaper solutions.
TC |
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| Tiger Lily |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:02 pm |
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Mark, i think you will find the group of people
who pursue information on usenet are more
motivated than the 'average' diabetic that you
would meet......... in other words, think of this
group as being the 10% cream de la creame of the
crop
i too am appalled at how some of my neighbours
don't want to learn anything more about their
diabetes other than 'what pill do i have to take
and when should i take it'...........
unfortunately there are far too many who only want
the pill and no more information (they are
resigned to loosing sight and kidney function and
getting amputations)............... the group here
will go down FIGHTING before we resign ourselves
to that sort of end
kate
type 1 19 years, complication free, touch wood
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.
"Mark" <mlowry3@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1128711740.486337.259990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
[quote:2b4b4b6432]
tunderbar@hotmail.com wrote:
shimuhy wrote:
Study shows that drug pioglitazone can
improve outcome of type 2
diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382
Scientists are also developing new drugs for
fighting diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383
So does restricting refined carbs in the diet.
And the side effects are
loss of excess weight and much better general
health.
TC
Yeah, but for some people, it is easier to pop a
pill than it is to put
down the doughnut.
Mark, MD
[/quote:2b4b4b6432] |
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| christopher.a.dowling@gma |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:53 pm |
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| Nice drug- too bad it makes ya fatter and can cause edema.... |
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| Jenny |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:16 am |
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tunderbar@hotmail.com wrote:
[quote:be1608c227]shimuhy wrote:
Study shows that drug pioglitazone can improve outcome of type 2
diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=382
Scientists are also developing new drugs for fighting diabetes.
http://www.webmedtoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383
So does restricting refined carbs in the diet. And the side effects are
loss of excess weight and much better general health.
TC
TC,[/quote:be1608c227]
I have been finding that after many years of controlling with a low carb
diet alone, the diet isn't enough to maintain normal blood sugars.
At that point, the drugs that control IR are very helpful. I'm still
restricting carbs.
That said, I'm shooting for normal numbers, not the just-under-7% A1c
which the drug companies promote as "good control".
--Jenny
http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Type 2 Diabetes info
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Low Carb info |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:15 am |
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Hi,
Jenny wrote:
[quote:283943fc5d]
I have been finding that after many years of controlling with a low carb
diet alone, the diet isn't enough to maintain normal blood sugars.
At that point, the drugs that control IR are very helpful. I'm still
restricting carbs.
[/quote:283943fc5d]
No they're not.
No drug except metformin reduces mortality and it has only been
shown to work in obese diabetics. It and other drugs may be slightly
helpful in maintaining things like kidney function and eyesight. And by
controlling blood sugar they certainly aid in the delusion that some
greater benefits are obtained. This delusion, however, can be
detrimental to some who are led to believe that drug driven low blood
sugar will help them to prevent premature death, the major spectre of
diabetes. Concurrent drug use also negates the ability to tell when
diet is sufficient to control blood sugar naturally, which is the only
real beneficial method.
The maintenance of low BMI thru diet and exercise on the other
hand is OVER 99% effective. While a very Spartan BMI of less than 20 is
necessary for about one percent of the population, higher BMI's are
sufficient for most. A very hi fibre, low iron diet has been shown
beneficial at given strata of calorie intake. Theory predicts that
small meals coupled with exercise soon after meals, large or small
would be beneficial. And it's a great excuse to get out of helping
with the dishes.
I don't think most doctors will deny these facts, and I
wouldn't keep one who does.
References to this effect can be seen by searching my posts
in sci.life-extension. No one will post contrary evidence from a
respectable medical journal.
Thomas |
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| Michael |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:49 pm |
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tcarter2@elp.rr.com wrote:
[quote:6cadd79c11]Hi,
Jenny wrote:
I have been finding that after many years of controlling with a low carb
diet alone, the diet isn't enough to maintain normal blood sugars.
At that point, the drugs that control IR are very helpful. I'm still
restricting carbs.
No they're not.
No drug except metformin reduces mortality and it has only been
shown to work in obese diabetics. It and other drugs may be slightly
helpful in maintaining things like kidney function and eyesight. And by
controlling blood sugar they certainly aid in the delusion that some
greater benefits are obtained. This delusion, however, can be
detrimental to some who are led to believe that drug driven low blood
sugar will help them to prevent premature death, the major spectre of
diabetes. Concurrent drug use also negates the ability to tell when
diet is sufficient to control blood sugar naturally, which is the only
real beneficial method.
The maintenance of low BMI thru diet and exercise on the other
hand is OVER 99% effective. While a very Spartan BMI of less than 20 is
necessary for about one percent of the population, higher BMI's are
sufficient for most. A very hi fibre, low iron diet has been shown
beneficial at given strata of calorie intake. Theory predicts that
small meals coupled with exercise soon after meals, large or small
would be beneficial. And it's a great excuse to get out of helping
with the dishes.
I don't think most doctors will deny these facts, and I
wouldn't keep one who does.
References to this effect can be seen by searching my posts
in sci.life-extension. No one will post contrary evidence from a
respectable medical journal.
Thomas
[/quote:6cadd79c11]
Very Interesting. My doc put me on Metformin when I was diagnosed back
in May. Back then, my A1c was 10.1; triglycerides 319, and BMI 25.9
(slightly overweight but not obese).
My latest A1c was 5.3; last triglycerides 143, and my BMI is now in the
22 range (having lost 20 pounds off my 5'9" frame).
Of course Metformin won't PREVENT premature death -- it won't keep me
from being hit by a bus. But it will delay or prevent complications
resulting from high BG.
mt |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:11 pm |
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Hi,
Congratulations, you've taken control of your own destiny. Gold
standard clinical trials show that metformin does not have an affect on
mortality for the non obese. Since you are by definition, no longer
diabetic, why take the metformin?
If you drop it, and your blood work goes south again, consider
some natural interventions such as exercise, chromium, cinnamon, and
fibre.
Thomas |
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| Michael |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:54 pm |
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Guest
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tcarter2@elp.rr.com wrote:
[quote:58b9a20fca]Hi,
Congratulations, you've taken control of your own destiny. Gold
standard clinical trials show that metformin does not have an affect on
mortality for the non obese. Since you are by definition, no longer
diabetic, why take the metformin?
If you drop it, and your blood work goes south again, consider
some natural interventions such as exercise, chromium, cinnamon, and
fibre.
Thomas
[/quote:58b9a20fca]
Because the fact that a meal will push my BG above 180 unless I'm
careful indicates that I remain Diabetic. I am still, by definition,
diabetic -- I have my BG under control, but that does not cancel my
membership in the T2 club.
I am using a wholistic approach -- prescribed medication, monitoring,
diet, exercise, and some natural interventions in my efforts to control.
If, in November, my physician suggests or concurs with reducing
Metformin, I probably will. I am not willing, at this point, to
completely eliminate the medication because I firmly believe I will not
remain in control without it -- even if I were to follow your
recommendations.
However, I believe I am ready to reduce my dosage. I'm on 4 pills a day
(500 mg each) -- I will suggest reducing my dosage in November. I
suggested the same reduction back in August and he wasn't ready yet.
Because he treats many diabetics and I treat one, for now I am accepting
his expertise -- after all, that's what I pay him for.
mt |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:05 pm |
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Hi,
Michael wrote:
[quote:32d2eab5df]tcarter2@elp.rr.com wrote:
Hi,
Congratulations, you've taken control of your own destiny. Gold
standard clinical trials show that metformin does not have an affect on
mortality for the non obese. Since you are by definition, no longer
diabetic, why take the metformin?
If you drop it, and your blood work goes south again, consider
some natural interventions such as exercise, chromium, cinnamon, and
fibre.
Thomas
Because the fact that a meal will push my BG above 180 unless I'm
careful indicates that I remain Diabetic. I am still, by definition,
diabetic -- I have my BG under control, but that does not cancel my
membership in the T2 club.
[/quote:32d2eab5df]
Postprandial glucose is much higher for everyone. The definition
of diabetes is based on fasting BG, not postprandial (around 105, I
think).
But try smaller meals and meals with more fibre, anyway.
[quote:32d2eab5df]I am using a wholistic approach -- prescribed medication, monitoring,
diet, exercise, and some natural interventions in my efforts to control.
If, in November, my physician suggests or concurs with reducing
Metformin, I probably will. I am not willing, at this point, to
completely eliminate the medication because I firmly believe I will not
remain in control without it -- even if I were to follow your
recommendations.
[/quote:32d2eab5df]
Very smart, but make him justify his decisions.
[quote:32d2eab5df]However, I believe I am ready to reduce my dosage. I'm on 4 pills a day
(500 mg each) -- I will suggest reducing my dosage in November. I
suggested the same reduction back in August and he wasn't ready yet.
Because he treats many diabetics and I treat one, for now I am accepting
his expertise -- after all, that's what I pay him for.
Thomas[/quote:32d2eab5df] |
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| Chris Malcolm |
| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:39 am |
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Guest
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In alt.support.diabetes tcarter2@elp.rr.com wrote:
[quote:13d1bc980f]Because the fact that a meal will push my BG above 180 unless I'm
careful indicates that I remain Diabetic. I am still, by definition,
diabetic -- I have my BG under control, but that does not cancel my
membership in the T2 club.
Postprandial glucose is much higher for everyone. The definition
of diabetes is based on fasting BG, not postprandial (around 105, I
think).
[/quote:13d1bc980f]
Postprandial blood glucose isn't higher for everyone. Some children,
and a few adults, have rock steady blood glucose. One middle aged
friend of mine thought she might be diabetic, and tried the effects of
eating two Mars bars. Readings every half hour for two hours
showed a slight rise from 5 to 5.5 and down again (US 90 to 99) in the
first hour.
You are not correct in your "definition of diabetes" by which I think
you mean the accepted diagnositc criteria. Failure of the glucose
challenge test is a sufficient diagnostic criterion. A single Mars bar
would have put me well over 11 (200 US). I can easily arrange for my
fasting BG to be around 4.7 (86).
--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] |
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| shimuhy |
| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:21 am |
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Guest
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Thanks. Have a nice day!
Here is a one way to remove your reply to shimuhy:
1. find your reply posts to shimuhy
2. click options of your posts
3. click blue "remove"
4. follow the instruction to remove it
Because some friends do not like my posts. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:35 am |
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Hi,
Grow up shimuhy.
As to the question at hand. Let's try to get the signal to noise
ratio off of zero.
Do any diabetic drugs extend the life span of non obese
diabetics?
Do they have a large, moderate, or none existent effect on
diabetic complications such as kidney function, eyesight, etc.?
Does reliance on these drugs diminsh efforts to exercise and
diet, which are proven remedies?
Thomas |
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