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ed kyle
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:43 pm
Guest
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle
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HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre T
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:35 am
Guest
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
88d21cfd.0401061143.1faeeafa@posting.google.com...
Quote:
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle


And your point is?
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Sander Vesik
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:51 am
Guest
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

Does it matter?

Quote:

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

Making sure you continue to be able to launch what you want when
you want is a smart thing. If there wasn't Arianespace and should
say all the US based launchers decide to not bid for Galileo
launches, the Russians would be able to get way too much money
and it might not happen at all. And this is not actually all that
hypothetical scenario.

Quote:

- Ed Kyle

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++
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ed kyle
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:26 am
Guest
"HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre Tamatoa" <fhaessig@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<btg9hj$q0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>...
Quote:
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
88d21cfd.0401061143.1faeeafa@posting.google.com...
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle

And your point is?

That Ariane can no longer pay its own way with commercial
launches alone. Europe depended on commercial payloads
from the outset for Ariane because it did not provide a
critical mass of government payloads the way that Russia/CIS
and the U.S. did for their launchers. Times have changed.
Now Arianespace is battling Proton and Zenit for commercial
business - much tougher competition than STS/Delta/Atlas
offered at the outset. Europe recognizes this and has
decided to increase government space funding to maintain
access to space. That is probably a good thing.

- Ed Kyle
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HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre T
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:03 pm
Guest
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
88d21cfd.0401070826.7feda361@posting.google.com...
Quote:
"HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre Tamatoa" <fhaessig@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:<btg9hj$q0r$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>...
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message :
88d21cfd.0401061143.1faeeafa@posting.google.com...
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle

And your point is?

That Ariane can no longer pay its own way with commercial
launches alone. Europe depended on commercial payloads
from the outset for Ariane because it did not provide a
critical mass of government payloads the way that Russia/CIS
and the U.S. did for their launchers. Times have changed.
Now Arianespace is battling Proton and Zenit for commercial
business - much tougher competition than STS/Delta/Atlas
offered at the outset. Europe recognizes this and has
decided to increase government space funding to maintain
access to space. That is probably a good thing.

All ypu just wrote is completely true, IMHO. However, Atlas and Delta

have/had a big advantage in US government covering much more of the KSC
fixed costs than french one did of CSG. EGAS doesn't completely cover the
difference. Even this didn't keep Delta IV in the commercial market. Does
anyone here know the situation with Baikonour and Plesetsk?
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HAESSIG Frédéric Pierre T
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:04 pm
Guest
Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> a écrit dans le message :
1073494282.324614@haldjas.folklore.ee...
Quote:
ed kyle <edkyle99@hotmail.com> wrote:
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

Does it matter?


To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

Making sure you continue to be able to launch what you want when
you want is a smart thing. If there wasn't Arianespace and should
say all the US based launchers decide to not bid for Galileo
launches, the Russians would be able to get way too much money
and it might not happen at all. And this is not actually all that
hypothetical scenario.

quite true.


Remember Symphonie.
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Mike Atkinson
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:46 pm
Guest
ed kyle wrote:
Quote:
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle

"Through the EGAS Ariane programme, to be in force for the period
2005-2009 and intended to cover selected fixed cost activities
(associated with the production of a batch of Ariane 5 to be ordered in
2003), European industry and Arianespace can be placed on a level
playing field with international competitors.

The financial envelope for the EGAS programme for the period 2004-2009
is set at 960 MEURO (2003 e.c.). Member Sates interested in
participating will be invited to draw up a Declaration by 30 September
and to subscribe to it by 31 December 2003."

EGAS does not start until this/next year, so how can it have an
effect on last year's profit?

I think that the profit is much more likely to be an artifact
of the timing of payments for launches performed in 2002. I have
no real reason to believe this over about a dozen other possible
reasons. It really is a good question:

"How did Arianespace manage a profit?"

--
Mike Atkinson
(to reply remove NO SPAM)
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Mike Atkinson
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:46 pm
Guest
ed kyle wrote:
Quote:
How did Arianespace manage a profit?

To find out, search for "EGAS" within the following link:

"http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/Pr_10_2003_i_EN.html"

- Ed Kyle

"Through the EGAS Ariane programme, to be in force for the period
2005-2009 and intended to cover selected fixed cost activities
(associated with the production of a batch of Ariane 5 to be ordered in
2003), European industry and Arianespace can be placed on a level
playing field with international competitors.

The financial envelope for the EGAS programme for the period 2004-2009
is set at 960 MEURO (2003 e.c.). Member Sates interested in
participating will be invited to draw up a Declaration by 30 September
and to subscribe to it by 31 December 2003."

EGAS does not start until this/next year, so how can it have an
effect on last year's profit?

I think that the profit is much more likely to be an artifact
of the timing of payments for launches performed in 2002. I have
no real reason to believe this over about a dozen other possible
reasons. It really is a good question:

"How did Arianespace manage a profit?"

--
Mike Atkinson
(to reply remove NO SPAM)
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