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| ring_theory |
 Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:32 pm |
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Guest
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"yt56erd" <yt56erd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114455442.245557.4440@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
[quote:63f6396893]
ring_theory wrote:
snip - top tip circle lover try trimming the crap to make your
messages readable
I'm not beyond playing the part of a fool. If voicing my concern
about an
event that has even in an infinitismal chance that it could destroy
the
planet We ALL live on, than I'm the fool all day long.
Thats a relief.
you are a fool all day long. we already estabished that.
My appreation for the masses and their entropy of it is what creates
the
concern. Some things split when you impact them.
but you have no idea of the forces involved or the method of working
out if/how an object will split under impact.
No I'm not into the intricacies of the inflated funding game nasa
plays.
It's not like nasa hasn't got maneuvering in space down to a science.
However they have got science down to a science. unlike you.
I could make it alot easier and less time consuming. But NASA doesn't
have
the time for joe dumfuk inventors.
Thank god. otherwise they would have to listen to the likes of you all
day long demanding that they explain all their calculations and work
because you assume they havent bothered to think it through.
Won't if we don't try.
But I am sure you would find enough faults with that plan if it was
ever put forward.
do you honestly think that nasa people have never considered any other
option?
There is plenty to worry about. just because you choose to dissmiss
the the bad possibilities, doesn't mean they go away.
true. people dismiss you but you dont go away.
[/quote:63f6396893]
there is a reason i don't.
[quote:63f6396893]
how do you get out of bed each day? can you bring yourself to cross
roads? Do you know the risk of you being hit by lightening is more
measureable than the risks you are worried about here.
have you ever worked out the risks and attendent probabilities of
getting electrocuted plugging your pc in so you can go online and make
posts like this?
For a starter they are a LOT bigger than 1/(almost)infinity.
I hope the damned thing splits into 3 pieces and mars pulls it in.
Ring
I hope it shatters into peieces just small enough that one single
pebble makes it through the atmosphere and hits you.
[/quote:63f6396893]
Death would be better than putting up with ignorance. |
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| Dan Baldwin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:49 pm |
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Guest
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:cfa1c129b2]
"Dan Baldwin" <dan_baldwin@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:426D304E.7C9B6241@invalid.com...
ring_theory wrote:
No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
Perhaps there is hope for humanity after all.
Perhaps but i wouldn't count on it man is hopeless.
[/quote:cfa1c129b2]
You are Alexa Cameron, and I claim my two fifty.
--
Dan Baldwin, unethical *by design*
I am a minion of Satan, but my powers are mainly administrative.
Hail the un-alive |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:56 pm |
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"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114437230.572229.207530@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[quote:43fa1f0729]
ring_theory wrote:
The truth is we decide our own fate normally. I'm just not into
trusting
NASA with the earths population. Even if their is a ultra-slim chance
of it
happening it should be scrubbed.
This reminds me of an old Max Fleischer Superman cartoon from the
late '30s:
http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/tuner.php?channel=599&format=tv&theme=guide
There's a professor, a "scientist", who's busy conducting
experiments with his gigantic magnetic gun atop a nearby mountain. His
method is to capture comets as they pass near Earth, bring them to just
above the observatory, make a quick study, then hurl them back whence
they came.
Unfortunately his magnet contraption isn't perfected yet, and he
occasionally dumps a comet onto the city of Metropolis, nearly killing
innocent civilians. So a delegation of officials & police show up at
the recluse's laboratory, to demand that he put an end to his meddling
experiments:
Professor:
"...and I realise gentlemen, that the safety of the public is of
special import to you. Perhaps *almost* as important to you as my
ambitions are to me. BUT- you request that I give up my experiments,
which are the culmination of thirty years of dreaming and planning.
It's impossible. Tonight those dreams will become real. The comet will
become my toy. Under my control, it will be brought to within a mile of
us. Then, after a close examination, I'll send it back again into
space."
Policeman:
"Your tampering with nature is endangering thousands of lives!"
Professor:
"Yes. And even at the possible cost of those lives, I shall continue my
experiments."
Policeman:
"I warn you professor, we're prepared to stop you!"
Professor:
"And I warn you sir, any interference may prove disastrous."
It's interesting to note that, further down the plot, the angry mob
does vandalise the professor's apparatus just as he has a juicy comet
on a collision course with Metropolis, putting the city into at least
as much danger as the professor might've managed all on his own. Only
when Superman gets the gadget up & running again in a nick of time is
the situation diffused by using the machine itself to hurl back the
object. Tsk, tsk- will angry mobs never learn?
-Mark Martin
[/quote:43fa1f0729]
Deep impact has the makings of a bad sci-fi movie.
that's what your point proved. |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:05 pm |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TPcbe.15222$WI3.14465@attbi_s71...
[quote:686428bac1]
Deep impact has the makings of a bad sci-fi movie.
that's what your point proved.
[/quote:686428bac1]
Deep Impact (staring Robert Duvall, Tea Leoni etc) was a bad Sci-Fi movie.
What are you trying to get at here?
I know you don't want to come to terms with it, but people at NASA probably
have thought through all the alternatives* you have and given each a risk
rating. They have obviously decided there is an acceptable risk.
Also, please try to keep your posts to relevant news groups.
If you want to discuss the physics of your "worries" then fine - do it here.
I am not sure what the other groups think of you though.
---
* actually, probably not all the alternatives. I suspect some of the ones
you are conjuring up are a bit too.... of the rails shall we say... for mere
mortals to consider. |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:21 pm |
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"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j-CdneHPtprkV_HfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
[quote:968a55a850]
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AQ3be.18465$NU4.17047@attbi_s22...
I'm not the one taking chances with the earths population.
Ring
The thing, ring, I cant work out is why you think that no one else in the
whole world has thought about this.
[/quote:968a55a850]
I believe it is well thought out and that nasa is well aware of the possible
implications. But just as columbia couldn't possibly sustain enough damage
by a launch mishap to effect it's re-entry, temple1 won't be effected by the
impact.
Nasa has been sacrificing safety for discovery for a long time.
Just in this case the safety of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives are
at stake not just a few crew members and a shuttle.
I'm sorry but this discovery just isn't worth gambling with the many lifes
that even in an infinitismal chance may destroy.
ring |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:24 pm |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jbdbe.15318$WI3.6254@attbi_s71...
[quote:40fc14aec3]
I believe it is well thought out and that nasa is well aware of the
possible
implications. But just as columbia couldn't possibly sustain enough damage
by a launch mishap to effect it's re-entry, temple1 won't be effected by
the
impact.
Nasa has been sacrificing safety for discovery for a long time.
Just in this case the safety of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives are
at stake not just a few crew members and a shuttle.
I'm sorry but this discovery just isn't worth gambling with the many lifes
that even in an infinitismal chance may destroy.
ring
[/quote:40fc14aec3]
That is too weak an argument. Every day there are risks taken that could
impact or end the lives of thousands of people. However, the nature of risk
management is that this doesn't occur.
What if the mission manages to save the comet from spinning round its orbit
and hitting earth in the future. Don't you think preventing this (albeit
infinitesimal) risk is worth it? |
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| T Wake |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:26 pm |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jbdbe.15318$WI3.6254@attbi_s71...
[quote:bfefa0a2d4]
snip[/quote:bfefa0a2d4]
I have trimmed my replies to you to sci.physics.
If you don't like reading messages in that group then please stop posting
there in the first place. I have no idea why you want to crosspost so much
but its up to you. I suggest you stick to posting to the newsgroups you want
to get a response from.
(this message crossposted, followups set) |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:27 pm |
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"Dan Baldwin" <dan_baldwin@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:426D57F2.D110B779@invalid.com...
[quote:f298fa6ad3]ring_theory wrote:
"Dan Baldwin" <dan_baldwin@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:426D304E.7C9B6241@invalid.com...
ring_theory wrote:
No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
Perhaps there is hope for humanity after all.
Perhaps but i wouldn't count on it man is hopeless.
You are Alexa Cameron, and I claim my two fifty.
[/quote:f298fa6ad3]
Whatever |
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| george |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:52 pm |
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:14b52a2d10]"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mPSdnRjMFt3VWPHfRVnyig@pipex.net...
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VZ2be.18024$r53.15527@attbi_s21...
snip
Nothing to fear??
No there is alot to fear. Dispite what you think bad things do
happen.
Generally because they have a probability >1/(almost)infinity
Isn't that the same odds they gave the last shuttle??
"Nothing that happens during launch will effect re-entry"!
Of course there was NO need for a spacewalk or inspection.
Bah!
It could have been prevented..
[/quote:14b52a2d10]
There is always a risk in flying.
It is far higher than that example given.
You have unsuccessfully erected a strawman..
Now prove (with the math) that the probe will destroy its target... |
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| John Vreeland |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:02 pm |
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Guest
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:ea1cda5f4b]"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j-CdneHPtprkV_HfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AQ3be.18465$NU4.17047@attbi_s22...
I'm not the one taking chances with the earths population.
Ring
The thing, ring, I cant work out is why you think that no one else
in the
whole world has thought about this.
I believe it is well thought out and that nasa is well aware of the
possible
implications. But just as columbia couldn't possibly sustain enough
damage
by a launch mishap to effect it's re-entry, temple1 won't be effected
by the
impact.
Nasa has been sacrificing safety for discovery for a long time.
Just in this case the safety of hundreds of thousands of peoples
lives are
at stake not just a few crew members and a shuttle.
I'm sorry but this discovery just isn't worth gambling with the many
lifes
that even in an infinitismal chance may destroy.
ring
[/quote:ea1cda5f4b]
Considering that the impactor is just supposed to knock off a piece of
the surface crust I do not think there is any danger of the comet being
diturbed much in its orbit, even if there was a chance of it being
disturbed to the point of earth collision, which is pretty much zero.
It's a good idea to look both ways when crossing the street, but there
is pretty much nothing NASA could do wrong here to jeopardize our
safety. There isn't enough momentum in that entire spacecrat to make a
diffrence unless the comet is so small that it would just burn up in
the atmosphere anyway. Worst case scenario? It couls create a scare
and people would die in the rioting. Maybe it could knock out a
communications satellite? Don't bet on it. |
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| [[The Commentator]] |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:06 pm |
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Guest
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:e7fa68d962]
"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j-CdneHPtprkV_HfRVnyvQ@pipex.net...
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AQ3be.18465$NU4.17047@attbi_s22...
I'm not the one taking chances with the earths population.
Ring
The thing, ring, I cant work out is why you think that no one else in the
whole world has thought about this.
I believe it is well thought out and that nasa is well aware of the possible
implications. But just as columbia couldn't possibly sustain enough damage
by a launch mishap to effect it's re-entry, temple1 won't be effected by the
impact.
Nasa has been sacrificing safety for discovery for a long time.
Just in this case the safety of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives are
at stake not just a few crew members and a shuttle.
I'm sorry but this discovery just isn't worth gambling with the many lifes
that even in an infinitismal chance may destroy.
ring
[/quote:e7fa68d962]
And what, exactly, is the probability of a serious accident with
this cometary probe that would result in deaths? Please show
your math.
If you can't or won't show your math it must be assumed you do
not have an actual calculation and are operating on pure emotion. |
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| chosp |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:20 pm |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DLcbe.15319$c24.4562@attbi_s72...
[quote:59bce15707]
is that the galaxy
Do you mean "solar system"?
What it's a galaxy when were looking at it from hubble but it's a solor
system when we inhabit it?
[/quote:59bce15707]
The solar system contains only one star - the sun.
Within the last ten years or so there have been found other solar
systems around other stars within the galaxy.
The galaxy we are in contains hundreds of millions of other stars
like our sun. It is likely that there are millions of solar systems
in our galaxy alone. There are billions of galaxies.
It is conceivable that eventually humans could have the capabilities
of altering the solar system. It is not remotely likely that humans
will ever have the capabilities of altering the galaxy. |
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| Wally Anglesea™ |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:38 pm |
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Guest
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:57:02 GMT, "ring_theory"
<ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:4b87e76f2b]
"John Griffin" <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96434A52E7C49thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4...
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole
point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is
equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near"
infinitesimal likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined
re-direction to an Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as
any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero
understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be
precisely navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids,
comets, etc. in the first place. More than zero can be
confidently figured out ahead of time as to the consequences
of the probe's impact upon the comet nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor
will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known
before hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum,
can be estimated to within a useful approximation ahead of
time due to data aquired in previous comet explorations.
Thus, a rational estimate is possible before hand of the
dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's overall
behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so
believe in everything. Those who are more learned don't have
to believe in everything. They can afford to wittle down the
possibilities to a narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily
thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require
planning, planning, and then some more planning. This takes
time- YEARS. It takes money, which in this case is taxpayer
provided. This means that a funding proposal had to go
through due process. It went through layers of review &
scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful
to the review commitees. No one just handed them several
hundred million dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever
tickles yer fancy with this bag of money." There was no
"doh! here comes a comet let's blow it up." You are imagining
the ways of the world in a very juvenile fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of
projections. "near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still
all implications need to be concidered. Deep impact is going
to alter temple1's natural orbit there is no doubt about that.
it's the implication of the altering that concernes me and all
of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
Duh. We'll just alter its course again, if it's that easy.
ROTFLMFAO!
[/quote:4b87e76f2b]
Why do you laugh?
YOU are the idiot who thinks a small impactor can significantly change
the orbit of a rather massive body.
[quote:4b87e76f2b]
By the way, it isn't that easy. Let's all make wild guesses...I say
that at perihelion, its deviation from its "normal" orbit will be
less than one centimeter.
You hope.
[/quote:4b87e76f2b]
Come July, chicken little, I'm gonna have a LOT of fun poking your
reality bubble (heck, it's fun now)
--
Maj. General, Fanatic Legions.
Commander of Southern Hemisphere Forces.
Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:45 pm |
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Guest
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"Jim Phillips" <jphillip@bcpl.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.3.96.1050425192641.23689I-100000@mail...
[quote:138ad8abeb]
I hope the damned thing splits into 3 pieces and mars pulls it in.
Wait, I thought you didn't want it impacting on Mars--what gives?
[/quote:138ad8abeb]
I don't want it impacting earth.
ring |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:56 pm |
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Guest
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"Wally AngleseaT >" <"<wanglese"@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote
in message news:covq61t6rtrb1dms19eri4825t8s4f3cts@4ax.com...
[quote:d6336dd453]On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:57:02 GMT, "ring_theory"
ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
"John Griffin" <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96434A52E7C49thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4...
"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole
point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is
equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near"
infinitesimal likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined
re-direction to an Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as
any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero
understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be
precisely navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids,
comets, etc. in the first place. More than zero can be
confidently figured out ahead of time as to the consequences
of the probe's impact upon the comet nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor
will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known
before hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum,
can be estimated to within a useful approximation ahead of
time due to data aquired in previous comet explorations.
Thus, a rational estimate is possible before hand of the
dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's overall
behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so
believe in everything. Those who are more learned don't have
to believe in everything. They can afford to wittle down the
possibilities to a narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily
thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require
planning, planning, and then some more planning. This takes
time- YEARS. It takes money, which in this case is taxpayer
provided. This means that a funding proposal had to go
through due process. It went through layers of review &
scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful
to the review commitees. No one just handed them several
hundred million dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever
tickles yer fancy with this bag of money." There was no
"doh! here comes a comet let's blow it up." You are imagining
the ways of the world in a very juvenile fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of
projections. "near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still
all implications need to be concidered. Deep impact is going
to alter temple1's natural orbit there is no doubt about that.
it's the implication of the altering that concernes me and all
of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
Duh. We'll just alter its course again, if it's that easy.
ROTFLMFAO!
Why do you laugh?
[/quote:d6336dd453]
Because He's right. if it so much as produces 1 bit of data. NASA will think
it's an accepted method of observation and next time temple1 comes back
we'll send another impactor twice the size. it won't stop until the damned
thing is altered for sure.
[quote:d6336dd453]
YOU are the idiot who thinks a small impactor can significantly change
the orbit of a rather massive body.
[/quote:d6336dd453]
your the idiot that denies it's a possibility.
[quote:d6336dd453]
By the way, it isn't that easy. Let's all make wild guesses...I say
that at perihelion, its deviation from its "normal" orbit will be
less than one centimeter.
You hope.
Come July, chicken little, I'm gonna have a LOT of fun poking your
reality bubble (heck, it's fun now)
[/quote:d6336dd453]
I want to be in nasa's cotrol center whan it all goes terribly wrong.
ring |
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