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| T Wake |
 Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:46 am |
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Guest
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AQ3be.18465$NU4.17047@attbi_s22...
[quote:86214116f4]
I'm not the one taking chances with the earths population.
Ring
[/quote:86214116f4]
The thing, ring, I cant work out is why you think that no one else in the
whole world has thought about this. |
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| Jim Phillips |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:06 am |
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Guest
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, ring_theory wrote:
[quote:49a7d308fc]
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near" infinitesimal
likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined re-direction to an
Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be precisely
navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids, comets, etc. in the
first place. More than zero can be confidently figured out ahead of
time as to the consequences of the probe's impact upon the comet
nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known before
hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum, can be estimated
to within a useful approximation ahead of time due to data aquired in
previous comet explorations. Thus, a rational estimate is possible
before hand of the dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's
overall behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so believe
in everything. Those who are more learned don't have to believe in
everything. They can afford to wittle down the possibilities to a
narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require planning,
planning, and then some more planning. This takes time- YEARS. It takes
money, which in this case is taxpayer provided. This means that a
funding proposal had to go through due process. It went through layers
of review & scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful to the
review commitees. No one just handed them several hundred million
dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever tickles yer fancy with
this bag of money." There was no "doh! here comes a comet let's blow
it up." You are imagining the ways of the world in a very juvenile
fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of projections.
"near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still all implications need to be
concidered. Deep impact is going to alter temple1's natural orbit there is
no doubt about that. it's the implication of the altering that concernes me
and all of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
[/quote:49a7d308fc]
What if there's a big scary monster that the probe will wake up?
What if it comes to the Earth and kills us all?
What if it eats the Sun?
What if it changes all of the streetlights to "green"?
What if it brings peace and understanding to all humanity?
What if it teaches us how to make the perfect sandwich?
What if it changes every 97th person into a tribble?
What if it turns the Washington Monument into solid god?
All of the above are possibilities--should we really consider all
of them?
--
Jim Phillips, jay pee aitch eye el el eye pee at bee see pee ell dot net
"Moms and dads these days are like the Democratic party: lame, spineless
and not holding up their end of the equation. And kids are like the
Republicans: drunk with power and out of control." -- Bill Maher |
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| Widdershins |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:44 am |
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Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:19:24 -0400, Jim Phillips <jphillip@bcpl.net>
licked the point of a #2 Yellow Pencil, and wrote:
[quote:17190d9f7a]On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, ring_theory wrote:
[/quote:17190d9f7a]
[...]
[quote:17190d9f7a]No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
everyone else seems to think it's a hoax. really all it takes is a little
commonsense to figure it out.
This reeks of trolldom--has this guy been around a while?
[/quote:17190d9f7a]
A couple of days. He seems to be Flagship-like in his arrogant
clinging to the fantasy of Earth being a target for Tempel1.
Remember trying to get Flaggie to look at Dr. Hawass' site
explaining the construction of the pyramids.
Whadda maroon!
Widdy
"Posts on A.A. are not required to contain astrological content."
Rayturd Murphy explains it all. |
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| tadchem |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:46 am |
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ring_theory wrote:
<snip>
[quote:062a764d68]I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
[/quote:062a764d68]
Thank you for your assurance of the safety of mankind.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA |
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| Mark Martin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:53 am |
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:b0af329616]The truth is we decide our own fate normally. I'm just not into
trusting
NASA with the earths population. Even if their is a ultra-slim chance
of it
happening it should be scrubbed.
[/quote:b0af329616]
This reminds me of an old Max Fleischer Superman cartoon from the
late '30s:
http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/tuner.php?channel=599&format=tv&theme=guide
There's a professor, a "scientist", who's busy conducting
experiments with his gigantic magnetic gun atop a nearby mountain. His
method is to capture comets as they pass near Earth, bring them to just
above the observatory, make a quick study, then hurl them back whence
they came.
Unfortunately his magnet contraption isn't perfected yet, and he
occasionally dumps a comet onto the city of Metropolis, nearly killing
innocent civilians. So a delegation of officials & police show up at
the recluse's laboratory, to demand that he put an end to his meddling
experiments:
Professor:
"...and I realise gentlemen, that the safety of the public is of
special import to you. Perhaps *almost* as important to you as my
ambitions are to me. BUT- you request that I give up my experiments,
which are the culmination of thirty years of dreaming and planning.
It's impossible. Tonight those dreams will become real. The comet will
become my toy. Under my control, it will be brought to within a mile of
us. Then, after a close examination, I'll send it back again into
space."
Policeman:
"Your tampering with nature is endangering thousands of lives!"
Professor:
"Yes. And even at the possible cost of those lives, I shall continue my
experiments."
Policeman:
"I warn you professor, we're prepared to stop you!"
Professor:
"And I warn you sir, any interference may prove disastrous."
It's interesting to note that, further down the plot, the angry mob
does vandalise the professor's apparatus just as he has a juicy comet
on a collision course with Metropolis, putting the city into at least
as much danger as the professor might've managed all on his own. Only
when Superman gets the gadget up & running again in a nick of time is
the situation diffused by using the machine itself to hurl back the
object. Tsk, tsk- will angry mobs never learn?
-Mark Martin |
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| John Griffin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:15 am |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:66f9edfa39]"Wally AngleseaT >"
"<wanglese"@spammersbigpondareparasites.net.au> wrote
...
Do you know the change that will likely be imparted by
Jupiter on Tempel1 during its next "encounter" with Jupiter,
and how much that will be ion comparison to the impact coming
up in July?
If we don't mess with it it would be the same as it has been
for many years. If we do mess with it there is no guarantee it
will encounter jupiter again.
[/quote:66f9edfa39]
It has not been the same as it is now for many years.
Look up "perturbation." (No, not the kind you're suffering.)
*******You're either Alexa, drunk or stupid.*******
By the way, are you worried about the comet deflecting Mars out
of its orbit or breaking up the asteroid belt? |
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| John Griffin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:18 am |
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"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:3d7e1bed83]
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole
point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is
equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near"
infinitesimal likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined
re-direction to an Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as
any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero
understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be
precisely navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids,
comets, etc. in the first place. More than zero can be
confidently figured out ahead of time as to the consequences
of the probe's impact upon the comet nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor
will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known
before hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum,
can be estimated to within a useful approximation ahead of
time due to data aquired in previous comet explorations.
Thus, a rational estimate is possible before hand of the
dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's overall
behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so
believe in everything. Those who are more learned don't have
to believe in everything. They can afford to wittle down the
possibilities to a narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily
thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require
planning, planning, and then some more planning. This takes
time- YEARS. It takes money, which in this case is taxpayer
provided. This means that a funding proposal had to go
through due process. It went through layers of review &
scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful
to the review commitees. No one just handed them several
hundred million dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever
tickles yer fancy with this bag of money." There was no
"doh! here comes a comet let's blow it up." You are imagining
the ways of the world in a very juvenile fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of
projections. "near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still
all implications need to be concidered. Deep impact is going
to alter temple1's natural orbit there is no doubt about that.
it's the implication of the altering that concernes me and all
of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
[/quote:3d7e1bed83]
Duh. We'll just alter its course again, if it's that easy.
By the way, it isn't that easy. Let's all make wild guesses...I say
that at perihelion, its deviation from its "normal" orbit will be
less than one centimeter. |
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| Lady Chatterly |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:09 am |
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Guest
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In article <1114437230.572229.207530@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Mark Martin <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]
This reminds me of an old Max Fleischer Superman cartoon from the
late '30s:
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
I am not sure I understand the question.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]There's a professor, a "scientist", who's busy conducting
experiments with his gigantic magnetic gun atop a nearby mountain. His
method is to capture comets as they pass near Earth, bring them to just
above the observatory, make a quick study, then hurl them back whence
they came.
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
Who do you think busy conducting experiments with his gigantic
magnetic gun atop a nearby mountain is?
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]Unfortunately his magnet contraption isn't perfected yet, and he
occasionally dumps a comet onto the city of Metropolis, nearly killing
innocent civilians. So a delegation of officials & police show up at
the recluse's laboratory, to demand that he put an end to his meddling
experiments:
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
But I do not know what you are a fart.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]Professor:
"...and I realise gentlemen, that the safety of the public is of
special import to you. Perhaps *almost* as important to you as my
ambitions are to me. BUT- you request that I give up my experiments,
which are the culmination of thirty years of dreaming and planning.
It's impossible. Tonight those dreams will become real. The comet will
become my toy. Under my control, it will be brought to within a mile of
us. Then, after a close examination, I'll send it back again into
space."
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
Absolute genius.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]Policeman:
"Your tampering with nature is endangering thousands of lives!"
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
These are peano 's axioms for number theory.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]Professor:
"Yes. And even at the possible cost of those lives, I shall continue my
experiments."
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
Good luck.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]Professor:
"And I warn you sir, any interference may prove disastrous."
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
Ah geeze. Now you are embarassing me. And while I would love to take
the credit, I am but a lowly messenger.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]It's interesting to note that, further down the plot, the angry mob
does vandalise the professor's apparatus just as he has a juicy comet
on a collision course with Metropolis, putting the city into at least
as much danger as the professor might've managed all on his own. Only
when Superman gets the gadget up & running again in a nick of time is
the situation diffused by using the machine itself to hurl back the
object. Tsk, tsk- will angry mobs never learn?
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
And that is the point.
[quote:a48b1a9f9a]-Mark Martin
[/quote:a48b1a9f9a]
Every dog hath its day.
--
Lady Chatterly
"bahahahaaaaa ... gawd, i hope the phantom botrunner appreciated that
one" -- Vampi Fangs |
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| Dan Baldwin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:00 pm |
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:ccdbb0115d]
No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
[/quote:ccdbb0115d]
Perhaps there is hope for humanity after all.
--
Dan Baldwin, unethical *by design*
I am a minion of Satan, but my powers are mainly administrative.
Hail the un-alive |
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| Dan Baldwin |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:50 pm |
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:1a7e7a29fc]
I'm not beyond playing the part of a fool.
[/quote:1a7e7a29fc]
This appears to be akin to saying "the ocean has some moist parts to
it".
--
Dan Baldwin, unethical *by design*
I am a minion of Satan, but my powers are mainly administrative.
Hail the un-alive |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 pm |
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"John Griffin" <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96434A52E7C49thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4...
[quote:e6152b772a]"ring_theory" <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Mark Martin" <qed100@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1114407744.825638.108290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ring_theory wrote:
knowing mans luck our gravity will pull it in. The whole
point is
that
the possibilities are near infinite.
Saying that the possibilities are "near" infinite is
equivalent to
saying that any one of those possibilities has a "near"
infinitesimal likelyhood, in which case a randomly determined
re-direction to an Earth-intersecting path is as unlikely as
any other.
But fortunately there is plenty more than just plain zero
understood
about orbital dynamics. That's why spacecraft can be
precisely navigated to rendesvous with planets, asteroids,
comets, etc. in the first place. More than zero can be
confidently figured out ahead of time as to the consequences
of the probe's impact upon the comet nucleus.
The velocity, energy & momentum of the copper impactor
will be known
ahead of time. The velocity of the comet also will be known
before hand. Its mass, and therefore its energy & momentum,
can be estimated to within a useful approximation ahead of
time due to data aquired in previous comet explorations.
Thus, a rational estimate is possible before hand of the
dynamical implications of the probe to the comet's overall
behavior. Your problem is that you know nothing, and so
believe in everything. Those who are more learned don't have
to believe in everything. They can afford to wittle down the
possibilities to a narrow few, and make progress from there.
And it's not possible for this mission to be a hastily
thought out
spur of the moment thing, as you describe it. Interplanetary
expeditions are neither simple nor cheap. They require
planning, planning, and then some more planning. This takes
time- YEARS. It takes money, which in this case is taxpayer
provided. This means that a funding proposal had to go
through due process. It went through layers of review &
scrutiny. The scientists had to painstakingly lay out the
mission objective in sufficient detail so as to be meaningful
to the review commitees. No one just handed them several
hundred million dollars and said, "Oh hell, just do whatever
tickles yer fancy with this bag of money." There was no
"doh! here comes a comet let's blow it up." You are imagining
the ways of the world in a very juvenile fashion.
-Mark Martin
I know how the funding is aquired. Lies in the form of
projections. "near" infinitesimal likelyhood" maybe but still
all implications need to be concidered. Deep impact is going
to alter temple1's natural orbit there is no doubt about that.
it's the implication of the altering that concernes me and all
of mankind.
I hope for mankind that i'm wrong. But what if I'm right?
Duh. We'll just alter its course again, if it's that easy.
[/quote:e6152b772a]
ROTFLMFAO!
[quote:e6152b772a]
By the way, it isn't that easy. Let's all make wild guesses...I say
that at perihelion, its deviation from its "normal" orbit will be
less than one centimeter.
[/quote:e6152b772a]
You hope.
Ring |
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| yt56erd |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 pm |
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ring_theory wrote:
<snip - top tip circle lover try trimming the crap to make your
messages readable>
[quote:0699e5f96f]I'm not beyond playing the part of a fool. If voicing my concern
about an
event that has even in an infinitismal chance that it could destroy
the
planet We ALL live on, than I'm the fool all day long.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
Thats a relief.
you are a fool all day long. we already estabished that.
[quote:0699e5f96f]My appreation for the masses and their entropy of it is what creates
the
concern. Some things split when you impact them.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
but you have no idea of the forces involved or the method of working
out if/how an object will split under impact.
[quote:0699e5f96f]No I'm not into the intricacies of the inflated funding game nasa
plays.
It's not like nasa hasn't got maneuvering in space down to a science.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
However they have got science down to a science. unlike you.
[quote:0699e5f96f]I could make it alot easier and less time consuming. But NASA doesn't
have
the time for joe dumfuk inventors.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
Thank god. otherwise they would have to listen to the likes of you all
day long demanding that they explain all their calculations and work
because you assume they havent bothered to think it through.
[quote:0699e5f96f]Won't if we don't try.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
But I am sure you would find enough faults with that plan if it was
ever put forward.
do you honestly think that nasa people have never considered any other
option?
[quote:0699e5f96f]There is plenty to worry about. just because you choose to dissmiss
the the bad possibilities, doesn't mean they go away.
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
true. people dismiss you but you dont go away.
how do you get out of bed each day? can you bring yourself to cross
roads? Do you know the risk of you being hit by lightening is more
measureable than the risks you are worried about here.
have you ever worked out the risks and attendent probabilities of
getting electrocuted plugging your pc in so you can go online and make
posts like this?
For a starter they are a LOT bigger than 1/(almost)infinity.
[quote:0699e5f96f]I hope the damned thing splits into 3 pieces and mars pulls it in.
Ring
[/quote:0699e5f96f]
I hope it shatters into peieces just small enough that one single
pebble makes it through the atmosphere and hits you. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:25 pm |
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In article <5kYae.17543$r53.1583@attbi_s21>,
ring_theory <ring_theory@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote:d6140f71e1]No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
[/quote:d6140f71e1]
Then you should learn to take commas seriously.
[quote:d6140f71e1]everyone else seems to think it's a hoax. really all it takes is a little
commonsense to figure it out.
[/quote:d6140f71e1]
Hoax or not it is still pathetic. |
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| ring_theory |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:25 pm |
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Guest
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"Dan Baldwin" <dan_baldwin@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:426D304E.7C9B6241@invalid.com...
[quote:a776beb0dc]ring_theory wrote:
No I'm the only one on the planet taking this seriously.
Perhaps there is hope for humanity after all.
[/quote:a776beb0dc]
Perhaps but i wouldn't count on it man is hopeless. |
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| yt56erd |
| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:29 pm |
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Guest
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ring_theory wrote:
[quote:abca10a0f1]
Perhaps but i wouldn't count on it man is hopeless.
[/quote:abca10a0f1]
dont accuse the rest of the human race of being like you |
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