On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:24:24 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message news:ns1vvvscm537ipjgvaj682g6f8vmghomd5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:52:20 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:rbuuvvguo7vplg6h6rbo26t143nt21s0sv@4ax.com...
..
In cornucopian society otoh, such natural impulses can
well lead us astray diet-wise, if not sufficient conscious effort is
mustered to counter them. Which there indeed seems to be some
dearth of, ref obesity.

But note that the Israeli vegetarians consumed more calories than the
Israeli meat-eaters while their average weight was significantly lower.
..

Yes, I found that interesting too. Average calorie intake was about
10 % higher for vegetarians, yet they had lower average weight.

How can we explain that? Higher average physical activity?
Lower average uptake?

It's hell being an American, having to die three times for statistical
validity

Jim Webster <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> writes

It's hell being an American, having to die three times for statistical
validity

Worse if you are a texan, you have to die more times and bigger.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
DEMON address no longer in use.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:17:08 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:

In article <btnr77$ouu$1@kermit.esat.net>, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:
"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:l20uvvc75i2bdo9jhg1fgnanbk0e082436@4ax.com...
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:16:42 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
..
J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
..
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Yes, indeed. It would seem to indicate that meat-eating -- the
possibility of a minor contribution from Mad Cow Disease disregarded
-- is Already Killing Thousands, if not Tens of Thousands of Americans
Every Year.

Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet related)

(data from http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html )

Hang on! That ASH mob claims most of these problems are due to
smoking. Do we count them all twice?

Well, if we add the figures there are 1,500,000 deaths there Surely we
could have Meat Eating Kills Hundreds of Thousands, while still
leaving Most of Them to be Killed by Smoking. Who is the ASH mob?

Gorillas are NOT herbivore,

'various degrees of selective behavior differentiate herbivores
into feeding categories (grazers, browsers, folivores, granivores,
frugivores, nectarivores),
http://zcog.org/zcog%20frames/Mammal%20Nutrition/MammalNutrition.htm

Feeding types:
-------------------------------------
Herbivores Plant matter
Grazers grass

Browsers leaves, grass

Frugivores fruit
Folivores leaves only
Nectivores plant nectar
--------------------------------------
Carnivores vertebrate prey
--------------------------------------
Insectivores insects
Ant eaters ants, termites
--------------------------------------
Piscivores fish
--------------------------------------
Scavengers dead animals
--------------------------------------
Sanguivores blood
--------------------------------------
Omnivores plants and animals
--------------------------------------
http://www.bio.gasou.edu/Bio-home/Pratt/vzmamm203.htm

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:24:24 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:ns1vvvscm537ipjgvaj682g6f8vmghomd5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:52:20 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:rbuuvvguo7vplg6h6rbo26t143nt21s0sv@4ax.com...
..
In cornucopian society otoh, such natural impulses can
well lead us astray diet-wise, if not sufficient conscious effort is
mustered to counter them. Which there indeed seems to be some
dearth of, ref obesity.

But note that the Israeli vegetarians consumed more calories than the
Israeli meat-eaters while their average weight was significantly lower.
..
Yes, I found that interesting too. Average calorie intake was about
10 % higher for vegetarians, yet they had lower average weight.
How can we explain that? Higher average physical activity?
Lower average uptake?

In article <vruvvvg0gk9bgqa1cufavnla7evokl0tt9@4ax.com>,
Torsten Brinch <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:24:24 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:ns1vvvscm537ipjgvaj682g6f8vmghomd5@4ax.com...
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:52:20 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:rbuuvvguo7vplg6h6rbo26t143nt21s0sv@4ax.com...
..
In cornucopian society otoh, such natural impulses can
well lead us astray diet-wise, if not sufficient conscious effort is
mustered to counter them. Which there indeed seems to be some
dearth of, ref obesity.

But note that the Israeli vegetarians consumed more calories than the
Israeli meat-eaters while their average weight was significantly lower.
..
Yes, I found that interesting too. Average calorie intake was about
10 % higher for vegetarians, yet they had lower average weight.
How can we explain that? Higher average physical activity?
Lower average uptake?

Presumably they're not ruminants, so they probably simply shat out the
calories they couldn't digest?

In article <650000ts8ifib3l48053n9447kimjc1pt9@4ax.com>,
Torsten Brinch <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:17:08 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:

In article <btnr77$ouu$1@kermit.esat.net>, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:
"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:l20uvvc75i2bdo9jhg1fgnanbk0e082436@4ax.com...
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:16:42 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
..
J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
..
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Yes, indeed. It would seem to indicate that meat-eating -- the
possibility of a minor contribution from Mad Cow Disease disregarded
-- is Already Killing Thousands, if not Tens of Thousands of Americans
Every Year.

Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet related)

(data from http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html )

Hang on! That ASH mob claims most of these problems are due to
smoking. Do we count them all twice?

Well, if we add the figures there are 1,500,000 deaths there Surely we
could have Meat Eating Kills Hundreds of Thousands, while still
leaving Most of Them to be Killed by Smoking. Who is the ASH mob?

They're a bunch of fervent, verging on rabid, anti-smoking
campaigners called "Action on Smoking and Health" to give themselves a
nicely contrived acronym. See <http://ash.org/

Personally, I blame mother's milk for all these morbidity issues.

Everyone who has fed on mother's milk is dead, or is going to die.

Hell! It's so bloody dangerous that even those who haven't had it are
dead, or soon will be, simply by association with those who have.

What kind of gatroenteritis have increased? Is Salmonella, Yersinia
and others included, and has it's ratio changed? There is different
kind of hygien, and to strengthen one dosn't help if you ignore
another.

From memory they have all increased, some more than others.
Reporting may have something to do with it, but I doubt its that
significant.

When I take my family abroad (eg asia) we eat in hole in the wall
eateries. We do not get sick although the first visit to an area
usually brings on an upset 12 hr stomach as we acclimatise to the new
bugs.

But I agree, I eat almost everything that smells and tastes good
before cooking, just be careful with mushrooms.

I identify the wild ones carefully before I eat them.

Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com> Decided to say:

What kind of gatroenteritis have increased? Is Salmonella, Yersinia
and others included, and has it's ratio changed? There is different
kind of hygien, and to strengthen one dosn't help if you ignore
another.

From memory they have all increased, some more than others.
Reporting may have something to do with it, but I doubt its that
significant.

It would be interesting to see the numbers, but I haven't the time to
look it up. I don't think many becomes sick from to old food though,
people gets scared just because it's easy to read the date on. As Calvin
said, "I don't want to eat something that might have the date of my
death on it"

When I take my family abroad (eg asia) we eat in hole in the wall
eateries. We do not get sick although the first visit to an area
usually brings on an upset 12 hr stomach as we acclimatise to the new
bugs.

Yes, mostly it goes well, but sometimes people get really sick, some
even dies. You might have a better immune system than others, but I
haven't seen any reaserch on that. Personally I would avoid the
filthiest ones.

But I agree, I eat almost everything that smells and tastes good
before cooking, just be careful with mushrooms.

I identify the wild ones carefully before I eat them.

Some friends of mine became sick from eating mushrooms that were
defrosted to slowly, not bacteria but spors.

Roland Jonsson <spam@tiscali.se> writes
Oz <acoohdb@btopenworld.com> Decided to say:

What kind of gatroenteritis have increased? Is Salmonella, Yersinia
and others included, and has it's ratio changed? There is different
kind of hygien, and to strengthen one dosn't help if you ignore
another.

From memory they have all increased, some more than others.
Reporting may have something to do with it, but I doubt its that
significant.

It would be interesting to see the numbers, but I haven't the time to
look it up. I don't think many becomes sick from to old food though,
people gets scared just because it's easy to read the date on. As Calvin
said, "I don't want to eat something that might have the date of my
death on it"

Very probably.

When I take my family abroad (eg asia) we eat in hole in the wall
eateries. We do not get sick although the first visit to an area
usually brings on an upset 12 hr stomach as we acclimatise to the new
bugs.

Yes, mostly it goes well, but sometimes people get really sick, some
even dies. You might have a better immune system than others, but I
haven't seen any reaserch on that. Personally I would avoid the
filthiest ones.

Hard to tell, few are actually obviously filthy (although may be of
local construction). I tend to go for ones where there are a lot of
locals. The locals don't like getting sick either. One needs to be
careful that they really are locals because (for example) singaporeans
on holiday look very much like anyone else in s.e.asia. I made that
mistake once (in Penang), in what looked a smart restaurant (on
reflection too smart for locals) only to realise that the other diners
were all speaking singapore english. We did have a minor upset as a
result.

Many places in asia cook the food in front of you and its clearly well
sterilised. I tend towards dunking my cutlery in the near boiling soup
for 60secs for obvious reasons, but this may be overkill.

But I agree, I eat almost everything that smells and tastes good
before cooking, just be careful with mushrooms.

I identify the wild ones carefully before I eat them.

Some friends of mine became sick from eating mushrooms that were
defrosted to slowly, not bacteria but spors.
Sounds improbable.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:44:05 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:

In article <650000ts8ifib3l48053n9447kimjc1pt9@4ax.com>,
Torsten Brinch <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:17:08 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:

In article <btnr77$ouu$1@kermit.esat.net>, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie
wrote:
"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:l20uvvc75i2bdo9jhg1fgnanbk0e082436@4ax.com...
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:16:42 -0000, "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
..
J Clin Gastroenterol. 1986 Aug;8(4):451-3.
Energy intake and body weight in ovo-lacto vegetarians.
..
The prevalence of obesity was significantly lower in the
vegetarian group (5.4%) as compared to 19.5% among the
omnivores. The lower body weight of vegetarians despite a
higher caloric intake is of considerable interest.
PMID: 3760524

Yes, indeed. It would seem to indicate that meat-eating -- the
possibility of a minor contribution from Mad Cow Disease disregarded
-- is Already Killing Thousands, if not Tens of Thousands of Americans
Every Year.

Diet related disorders Deaths per year (US)
-------------------------------------------------
heart disease 709,894
stroke 166,028
diabetes 68,662
hypertension 17,964
Nephritis 37,672
Chronic Liver Disease/Cirrhosis 26,219
many cancers (colon, prostate, mouth,
throat, esophagus, lung, stomach) 551,833 (- largely diet related)

(data from http://www.cspinet.org/nutritionpolicy/nutrition_policy.html )

Hang on! That ASH mob claims most of these problems are due to
smoking. Do we count them all twice?

Well, if we add the figures there are 1,500,000 deaths there Surely we
could have Meat Eating Kills Hundreds of Thousands, while still
leaving Most of Them to be Killed by Smoking. Who is the ASH mob?

They're a bunch of fervent, verging on rabid, anti-smoking
campaigners called "Action on Smoking and Health" to give themselves a
nicely contrived acronym. See <http://ash.org/

God bless them <cough> had they only <cough, heave> got at me
sooner convincing me <aerkhaerkhaerhka, heave --- - heave> how
badly smoking affects health.

Personally, I blame mother's milk for all these morbidity issues.

That would seem rather arbitrary. But assuming it grandmothers
would seem to be at least as culpable. And of course it all started
with Eve.

Everyone who has fed on mother's milk is dead, or is going to die.

That's where the arbitrary stuff comes in. You could say the same
about exposure to air.

Hell! It's so bloody dangerous that even those who haven't had it are
dead, or soon will be, simply by association with those who have.

Note: With the air hypothesis, you would not need to construe this
spurious connection.

In article <en33009acl4fohc2gbq6f0i8mv3g5ch0am@4ax.com>, Torsten Brinch <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:44:05 GMT, ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)
wrote:
..
Everyone who has fed on mother's milk is dead, or is going to die.

That's where the arbitrary stuff comes in. You could say the same
about exposure to air.

You could be on to something there Torsten.

I would have thrown in
sunlight as another possibility; but of course you poor buggers way up
there don't see much of that, and you're still all going to die.

(Mind you, it won't be long before it's *all* blamed on the Internet.)

Hell! It's so bloody dangerous that even those who haven't had it are
dead, or soon will be, simply by association with those who have.

Note: With the air hypothesis, you would not need to construe this
spurious connection.

And you bloody well need to! Some are *very* difficult to
distinguish. (Mind you, if you're really familiar with the things
it's usually pretty easy -- just don't try to work from written
descriptions in your first endeavours!)

Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> writes

And you bloody well need to! Some are *very* difficult to
distinguish. (Mind you, if you're really familiar with the things
it's usually pretty easy -- just don't try to work from written
descriptions in your first endeavours!)

Spot on in one.

The wild ones have (drool) just *SO* much more flavour .....